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Author Topic: 4th fleet!!  (Read 962 times)

Offline Captim

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4th fleet!!
« on: October 22, 2014, 07:07:01 PM »
So, the most advanced airliner in the history of aviation, the 787, is now being stored by airlines in large quantities rather than being flown.

Brilliant.

That is just what the RL airlines did with them. Those much vaunted efficiency savings never could match the 20th century gen a/c could they? Just put them in moth balls. Too clever for staff to handle, they can only understand three a/c types at one time.

Boeing created a huge dud in that project, just fly the 763/777 until you can replace your ENTIRE fleet in one go.

PLEASE sort this out. Broken game.

Offline Infinity

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 10:33:45 AM »
Well, I have to save up 350 787s before I can move them into service. I tried how much a fourth fleet would cost me and it increased my commonality costs by the factor 6.5, so I figured I would rather store them until I have enough.

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 11:13:59 AM »
Yet multiple feature requests begging for a solution to this problem go unanswered. Instead, we get fascinating new features such as permanent vacation mode and prettier email notifications....
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline Captim

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2014, 02:37:50 PM »
The penalty kills airlines. AKA fee paying players, in their droves.

No problem with badly managed/out competed airlines going down, but when your commonality costs rocket insanely overnight due to flying one extra plane then we have a very silly situation.

We can retrain pilots, why not the other staff? Why not have a transition fleet designation? Say, we have two or three years whereby a fourth fleet can be flown and we take it that staff are receiving training and manufacturer assistance to run the new type? A premium could still be paid, just not in excess of $20m a month!

Or, reduce the fleet separation. 737NG and A320's have a nice transition into their modern counterparts. This forces players into this game style. The B717/MD90 meld is a good step in the right direction, but by the 2010's they still have nowhere to go and have to introduce a new type.

It's a good game, with an impressive detail until we come to this issue, whereby the realism falls apart completely. It's not a balancing mechanic, a change in this would see a far greater variety of types flown at all ends of the spectrum, which makes for a fuller, funner game.

BA currently fly 7 fleet types in the AS world, with an 8th on order.



 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 02:47:18 PM by Captim »

jackpot

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 09:24:54 PM »
Im not in this GW but on GW2 today I ran an experiment. I pay around 10m p/month for 3 fleet types and added 1 flight to 1 a/c making 4 types and my costs rocketed to 38m p/month. When you consider my revenue is #4 in this game world and i only turnover around 200m p/month, makes you wonder how smaller airlines can cope. Doesn't really seem fair to me. I think it should be a penalty based on all levels and not such a massive hike for 4 types, for example increase of 50% for each new type flown would allow smaller airlines to grow quicker and mean everyone didn't chase the same aircraft type and give a bit of variety on aircraft selection. I also think there should be something programmed to reduce effect on fleet upgrade for the same/similar a/c types - eg boeing 737 going from 100/200 to 300/400/500.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 09:29:55 PM by [ATA] wildavidson »

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2014, 10:16:51 PM »
A couple feature requests on the subject:

http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,40746.0.html - Expand "like types" commonality (Similar to MD-90/717, but without combining fleet groups)

Cant find the request....but another option was "Partial Commonality"...so, say, the 757/767, with cockpit commonality, would count as maybe 1.5 types, or the various 737's would count at .1 extra for each added model (ie 737-3/4/5 and 6/7/8/9 side by side would count as 1.1). No significant penalty would be assessed until the 4.0 fleet type threashold is reached.

Regardless, something has to be done. This, along with the dire need for the ability to swap schedules to different yet compatible aircraft types (schedule of a 727 swapped to an A320, for example) are the single two most important open feature requests right now.
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline Elouda

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2014, 10:51:48 PM »
Im not in this GW but on GW2 today I ran an experiment. I pay around 10m p/month for 3 fleet types and added 1 flight to 1 a/c making 4 types and my costs rocketed to 38m p/month. When you consider my revenue is #4 in this game world and i only turnover around 200m p/month, makes you wonder how smaller airlines can cope. Doesn't really seem fair to me. I think it should be a penalty based on all levels and not such a massive hike for 4 types, for example increase of 50% for each new type flown would allow smaller airlines to grow quicker and mean everyone didn't chase the same aircraft type and give a bit of variety on aircraft selection. I also think there should be something programmed to reduce effect on fleet upgrade for the same/similar a/c types - eg boeing 737 going from 100/200 to 300/400/500.

I also noticed this in GW#2 - I recently moved from 4 types (N262, DC9, B727, B707) down to 3 by dropping then the 707s, and am now adding DC10s, and I was very confused why the maintenance on my DC9s (which remained pretty much unchanged during this time) when from 900k down to 400k and then up again.

I don't really think this makes any sense, certainly not such drastic hits. The 50% is a good idea, though I wonder if an approach where it works 'backwards' from worst case of a fully mixed fleet to one with bonuses for more efficiency based on fleet composition faction (either just by pure aircraft number, or preferably in terms of maintenance manhours for that type) with allowances for commonality somehow might work more smoothly.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:56:04 PM by Elouda »

Offline schro

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2014, 11:11:06 PM »
I also noticed this in GW#2 - I recently moved from 4 types (N262, DC9, B727, B707) down to 3 by dropping then the 707s, and am now adding DC10s, and I was very confused why the maintenance on my DC9s (which remained pretty much unchanged during this time) when from 900k down to 400k and then up again.

I don't really think this makes any sense, certainly not such drastic hits. The 50% is a good idea, though I wonder if an approach where it works 'backwards' from worst case of a fully mixed fleet to one with bonuses for more efficiency based on fleet composition faction (either just by pure aircraft number, or preferably in terms of maintenance manhours for that type) with allowances for commonality somehow might work more smoothly.

The increase is on a logarithmic scale based on the number of planes in your fleet. At 100 frames, it's not a big deal. At 300, it hurts, and at 1000 you'd better have a few billion in the bank to pay for it.

Offline ArcherII

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 11:25:07 AM »
The increase is on a logarithmic scale based on the number of planes in your fleet. At 100 frames, it's not a big deal. At 300, it hurts, and at 1000 you'd better have a few billion in the bank to pay for it.

I guess it should be the other way around.

Online gazzz0x2z

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 03:06:11 PM »
My uneducated guess is that it's normal : it prevents the big boys with the big planes from crushing the small boys flying on small lines with small planes(or even middle boys as I am, flying 737 & A148+CRJ).

Plus, it is normal to hit the big boys more than the small ones. They've proven their skin is hard enough to endure such a treatment. I'm not supposed to kill this annoying company flying 20-seaters on some of my favourite lines. I cannot because I'd either spend far too much money on A148s, or I'd spend too much money on communality costs using 20-seaters. They can't kill me, I can't kill them. Same for the biggies. Danger for me is similar-sized companies(3 did try to kill me in Glasgow, they died). And that's fair.

So, if you want smooth fleet replacements, limit yourself to 2 fleet groups, & replace one by one. I replaced my 737-200 by 737-700, and only after I began replacing CRJs by A148s.

Offline 11Air

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Re: 4th fleet!!
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2014, 01:57:41 PM »
The gap I see in the rules that I cannot use one base to service three type, and another base to service three different types.
Doing that shouldn't attract the penalties as spares and personnel at each base are only dealing with three types.
Real World the bigger airlines are happy to run small airlines where the Board feels it's a good buy-out (and throws a few routes into their own net work). The rest of it is left to continue under it's own flag, paying returns on the investment to BA rather than shareholders.

I start with small aircraft, small routes, and make money. It takes 3 types to make a regional airline. Now I can afford to run a couple of jets, and have slots I can divert even where there are limited slots. But it will add a couple of types at least. 70seat Turbo Props and a 140 seat jets for example to get into the Continental and overseas market in a small way. Maybe I can trim my regional fleet to two types but I'm covering 17 to 50+ seat routes and making money on them, usually with aircraft less than ten years old.

Am I stuck with the Regional Scenario?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 02:04:16 PM by 11Air »

 

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