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Author Topic: DC-8 type of aircraft?  (Read 523 times)

Offline DrMccarthy

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DC-8 type of aircraft?
« on: September 03, 2014, 04:31:07 PM »

A DC-8-63 is a very large size of aircraft. However, I received a message when trying to create a new international longhaul:

"This aircraft type may be too small for this route.

Passengers prefer to fly long routes with larger aircraft types and if you choose this aircraft type to this route you may not be able to attract all of the passenger demand."

The rout is about 4100 nm.

Why this message is appearing?


Offline Kadachiman

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Re: DC-8 type of aircraft?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2014, 04:42:12 PM »
1. The game averages all of the plane types in the Fleet group and the message you are receiving could be due to that
- DC8-63 may be 180 seats but the smallest DC8 is 120 seats and many are around the 150 the average is 150
- this is what the game matrix uses for that message

2. Narrow body aircraft compared to Wide body aircraft
- On International LongHaul I believe that there is a preference for wide bodied aircraft in the game matrix so that more pax will chose the WB over the NB

More experienced players than me will give you more reasons (and maybe more accurate) responses though :-)

Online dmoose42

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Re: DC-8 type of aircraft?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2014, 06:22:10 PM »
The threshold also changes based on game year as well as the size of the demand on the route so it's not a fixed distance.  Since the DC-8-63 is not released yet in GW2, I am assuming you are refering to another game world.  Typcially DC-8 start getting too small warnings in the early 80's.

One other thing of note.  The impact varies depending on the severity of the warning.  If you hit the too small warning by a small margin, you may see no impact on load factors.  If you are significantly too small, the load factor may be significantly reduced.  However, there's really no way to quantify this within the game based on information provided other than an educated guess (and looking at load factors - if they seem way too small, it's time to get a bigger plane!)

Offline DrMccarthy

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Re: DC-8 type of aircraft?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2014, 10:35:26 PM »
Yes, you are right, I was talking about Game World #2, my bad. But I still not understanding why it is not adequate for international longhals, once both types of DC-8 (62 & 63) are very large aircraft.
In my game world we are entering on 90s`. 

Offline schro

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Re: DC-8 type of aircraft?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2014, 12:43:45 AM »
The plane classification for size and whether it is too small for a route are two variables that are not connected.

The designation of the size of the plane can be small, medium, large or extra large. These are manually configured by the game administrator and it will drive the overall staffing requirements for the plane type (i.e. you need more pilots for a XL vs a small). As there's some judgement involved, sometimes there's a line of differentiation between types, as is the case for the 707 and DC8. When those types were first produced, they WERE extra large AT THAT TIME, therefore, they have been classified as such within the game. However, over time, the average size of plane grows such that if they were launched 30-50 years after their actual in-service date, they'd probably earn a large classification instead. In short, a DC8 compared to a Connie or DC6 (both "large") makes sense as they're of the same era.

With regards to the "plane is too small" warning, that is driven by the average seat count across a fleet as was described by Kadachiman. The main reason for this mechanism is to eliminate a.... "gameplay mechanic" that used to allow folks to fly jets on long haul routes that were never designed to be flown on those routes. For example, A320's doing transatlantic flights. Due to that "gameplay mechanic", it allowed folks to attack airlines flying larger routes with smaller jets, ultimately making it a liability to fly a large plane on heavily contested routes. The warning is modeled on a scale, so if it is 99% appropriate it will get the same warning as 0% appropriate (we never know these values). The average number of seats for a given route needed to stay appropriate will increase over time - in GW4, the DC8 started receiving the warning on long haul routes in 1980 (as did the 707). Now, the warning is a bit conditional, as it will depend in distance as well as demand. Distance is a bit obvious, but for demand, in general, if you can fill demand with 1 small plane per day, then it will continue to be appropriate - so, a DC8 on a 5000nm 200 pax/day route will be fine but a DC8 on a 5000nm 500 pax/day route will be too small.

Regardless, I would suggest looking a bit harder at the economics of the DC8 as they become economically obsolete with the introduction of the DC10. Specifically, the DC8 (even the 63) costs more to fly any given flight than a DC10, while the DC10 can carry 50% more seats (aka 50% more revenue potential). Thus, even if you only have 200 demand on a route, you'r ebetter off flying a mostly empty DC10 than a full DC8.

Online dmoose42

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Re: DC-8 type of aircraft?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2014, 01:33:27 AM »
What David said....


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