AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour  (Read 1521 times)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

  • Members
  • Posts: 4028
Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« on: May 11, 2014, 07:16:17 PM »
This bug report is about strange route/market share/load factor behaviour without any reason and without any feedback for the player.


GW#4, King Airways, Los Angeles

Problem is the Los Angeles - London Heathrow (and back) route.
http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Routes/Planning/X/KLAX/EGLL/


Owl Express and KAW shared the route for years with 30% to 70% market share. Owl flew for years 13x daily with Boeing 707 and 3x Starliner, 16x nonstop, I fly the route for years 21x daily with techstop DC-8


Owl changed late 1969 his three Starliners to 707, adding about 200 seats to the route.



Since about then my market share and load factors dropped significantly. From 30% to 70% market share to 55% (and increasing) to 45% (decreasing).

LF went from mostly good green ones (>70) to basically all red in all classes (<30).



Due to finding out what's wrong we monitored the things closely and tried different things (but did not add or remove flights):

Owl increased prices on that route by about 50% and I decreased prices by 5%. Result: His market share went from ~45% to 55%.



I have not changed my prices for nearly a year now, so my prices on that route can't be the reason. I also doubt offering 200 more seats on that route can trigger such a massive result and if it is so, it is clearly unlogical and "wrong". Also my high price and my low price flights are all massively affected




Yes, I am aware of the fact he flies nonstop and I fly techstop. But, again: This is how things are for 10 years now. And for 10 years everything worked perfectly and very well.

Out of a sudden things changed and they went worse when we changed prices.


That seems just wrong.

ch114275

  • Former member
Re: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 01:57:00 AM »
Like the manual says, NEVER depend on LF for route success.  Profit is where you should be looking IMHO! Try the same aircraft on the same route if you can and you'll see your LF is irrelevant compared to profit.

ch114275

  • Former member
Re: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 02:08:38 AM »
Well maybe not irrelevant but certainly not a major factor.  Maybe try changing your aircraft configuration to suit the passenger demand more closely and improving the higher paid seats as this seems to affect profit more in my experience?

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

  • Members
  • Posts: 4028
Re: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 02:44:29 AM »
Thanks for your try to help, and please don't get me wrong; I play this game for a while, run successful airlines and the first post exactly describes what was done and what is the problem and it also explains there is no obvious reason (because the route was very good for many years without major changes):

The route was fine and then totally went down. I have some ideas what could have caused this, and, unfortunately, all are bugs or "strange working as intended"-features. Nobody except sami can lift the secret because he's the only one who can access the actual route datas.

Offline schro

  • Members
  • Posts: 3072
Re: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 02:48:01 AM »
Hypothesis 1 Testing underway:

Hypothesis: Plane is too small warning is giving benefit to each of King Airway's flights when I have 1-3 out of my bunch of flights have planes that are too small.

Test Procedure: Add back a single Starliner flight on Thursday and measure the change.

Offline Sanabas

  • Members
  • Posts: 2161
Re: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 04:52:37 AM »
My hypothesis: DC-8 was initially suitably sized for the route. It is now too small. Can be confirmed by going to edit route for one of the affected flights, and seeing if there is now a big yellow box.

Past experience says tech-stop penalty + too-small penalty = huge loss of LF. http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,45058.msg251012.html#msg251012 includes an example, without competition, of the difference between just a tech-stop, and tech-stop + too-small, with a DC-10 getting around 160 pax on a ~380 pax route, and a too-small 707 only getting ~70 out of 380.

The change from no too-small warning to having a too-small warning is indeed a sudden one, and particularly noticeable when you also have a tech-stop, and a lot of competition.

Sounds like it's all working as intended. Sounds like it's more info for the feature requests about tech-stops, particularly combined with too-small, and not a bug. Sounds like someone needs to modernise their fleet.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

  • Members
  • Posts: 4028
Re: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 08:50:36 AM »
It's mid 1970 and the DC-8-61 is the second largest aircraft available, out of the second largest average fleetgroup available. There is no too-small penalty.


Owl's Starliner, that of course had the penalty, had it also for many years before the route went crazy.


Whatever happend, it was either a bug or a feature that works contrary to logic. Owl increased prices massively and I decreased them and his market share jumped and my decreased further. It's like people love to pay more and hate to pay less....

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

  • Members
  • Posts: 4028
Re: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 09:08:19 PM »
Sami? Were you able to take a look? I have a bit more time now again and would like to start to change things a bit... that would however mean investigation could be more difficult?

Offline Sami

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 14537
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 09:09:23 PM »
Would say that it's related to techstop vs no techstop but no other immediate comments so far. Haven't checked (but have a database copy).

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

  • Members
  • Posts: 4028
Re: Strange LF decrease/route behaviour
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 09:22:43 PM »
Thing is... it was techstop vs. nonstop for 6-8 years and it was never a problem. ;) So either it was a bug that allowed me to get too many PAX or it is a bug now that disallows me to get PAX.

Edit: Thanks for your answer of course! We try a bit this and that to see if we can influence it a bit.

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.