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Author Topic: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser  (Read 2756 times)

Online saetta

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DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« on: February 17, 2014, 01:19:45 AM »
It amazes me how many carriers have bought these AC. They were probably, some of the worst performing airliners of the 50 s. The DC 7 C being a bit better, and yet many airlines in this game bought them ...masochism? or is the game assessing these machines wrong ...or am I missing something. Yeah the are better then any Russian plane ..but not by much!

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 02:39:41 AM »
By the timeframe this game world started the Boeing 377 is not a very attractive airplane, so I can only assume desperation for aircraft for why anyone is using them.  The DC-7C however, while not the best available long range aircraft at this time, is certainly a viable second tier alternative for those who can't wait on the delivery backlog for the DC-6B, Constellation, or Britannia.  People might pick up a few DC-7A/Bs while waiting on delivery of the DC-7C to start if they've decided to go with the DC-7C, since they share commonality.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 07:33:34 AM »
There is no "best" aircraft in the game.

While the Comet 1 (and 1A and 2...) are bad I still got some because I want Comet 4. That's also why I got Comet 3 - they are decent for a while. Key in this game but especially in Jet Age is to decide when to dump which aicraft variant.


To the aircraft you named:
Is the B-377 bad or "worst performing"? No. If you have lots of demand in the up to 2000nm range, like the big European and some Asian Airports have, it's a very good aircraft - even as standard one. Flying it mid-range doesn't make the speed a problem as well as negates the turn around time and it can seat more people than a DC-6 or Constellation. However, even on techstoup routes it can make good money, especially if you go for uncontested routes.
The only downside is the production line is closed at gameworld start.


The DC-7 are a also a decent long-range aircraft. They can seat a few more people than the Constellation, are faster and burn less a bit less fuel. The DC-7 and DC-7B are a nice aircraft for ranges up to their absolute maximum range. The downsides are the high price and the late availability. The reason not to take them are especially the fact people already got Constellations or DC-6 and a third fleetgroup for the same duty doesn't make much sense for most.



However, Constellations (4th pilot, huge speed and maintenance as well as order costs) and DC-6B (no used availablity, slow, filled up line until year 2000) have several downsides, too, and even comparing them both doesn't lead to a conclusion one of them is "better". I ran airlines with 300+ DC-6(B ) and now I have one with, soon, 200+ Constellations. You want to use them for slightly different duties as far as possible.



Saying aircraft XY is bad without facts or aircraft AB is good without facts doesn't help and is, mostly, wrong. So yes, michele, you missed some points here...


PS: You use DC-4 and Martin 4-0-4 to their maximum range. That is wrong usage and it is why you get slapped hard by me and even alpha on this route: http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Routes/Planning/X/KLAX/MMMX/ GW#4



« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 07:44:58 AM by CUR$E »

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 07:40:54 AM »
You use DC-4 and Martin 4-0-4 to their maximum range. That is wrong usage and it is why you get slapped hard by me and even alpha on this route: http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Routes/Planning/KLAX/MMMX/ GW#4

I'd say not flying the route every day coupled with several less than optimal arrival times are doing enough damage to him on that route to make aircraft choice a somewhat minor factor.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2014, 07:43:47 AM »
That was the one in a Million where I tried not to be too mean, Ryan. :)

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 07:44:23 AM »
That was the one in a Million where I tried not to be too mean, Ryan. :)

Ah  :)

Offline Teadaze

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 11:53:36 AM »
mainly it is due to lack of availability, if you are one of the late starter or did not grasp the opportunity to order plane when the production queue did not get trashed right from the beginning you are pretty much stuck with those. The Dc7 is not bad, but you have to rely on new order.

The level of difficulty for start of JA is quite low you can get by with most aircraft.

actually the soviet aircraft is very viable right now.

Offline Troxartas86

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 09:03:02 PM »
actually the soviet aircraft is very viable right now.

 ;D I'm ranked 72nd for profit margin and that's without any long haul or medium haul for that matter. Half-full 21-seat Il-12s paid back my loan in no time.

Online saetta

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2014, 12:48:06 AM »
I guess King Air and "Ryan" had a field trip with my question. Gentleman last I checked Strats and Connies (unfortunately), Comets (also unfortunately),and I think all Russian props became Coke and Pepsi cans in the late 60"s while the the DC 6 is still a profitable AC today in certain parts of the world.
King air it's very cool that you help other players with your knowledge of this game, and it is very much appreciated by all, but your friend Ryan snickering comments are uncalled for . Be careful arrogance can bite you, once you think you have all the answers ...that's when you cease having them!

Offline Troxartas86

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 05:22:19 AM »
The Il-12 held on into the 80's and a few are still around. The Il-14 made it into the 90's and 2000's in a few places. At least two Il-18s are actually still in civilian service as of 2013.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 09:40:18 AM »
@ michele

In AirwaySim you don't want to fly any of those aircraft in end '60s anymore. There are good reasons why I and others use DC-6 and Constellations at the same time and it's mostly not the faster delivery - I described them above.

The DC-6 that flew in real life for a longer time were all frighters, but cargo isn't implemented in AirwaySim yet (or the module is not activated).

Offline Kadachiman

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 10:23:48 AM »
Game tip - forget what the plane was like in real life and if it was a success or not, as the game does not necessarily follow real life success and failures to the tee, play the game with the specifications of the aircraft as your determining factor e.g the 'square window' Comets do not fall out of the sky in this game.

I have ordered many DC7B, DC7C and Super Connies mainly due to when they are available so that I can keep growing e.g. very few Connies, etc left in storage so if you have no planes coming in from your orders your growth will stop, I even threw in a few 'Double Decker' Breguet 763's for this reason.

In addition to the above point I have also leased them for long enough to ensure that I have a regular supply of my choice of jet replacements coming online as I phase out my props.

So forget the real life performance of individual planes and pay careful attention to the statistics of individual Makes and models instead.

There is no 'correct plane' as such as it really is what suits your airport, pax numbers and strategy the best.

Offline chiveicrook

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2014, 10:38:03 AM »
And speaking of Soviet turboprops... I believe noise regulations were the main reason to retire Il-18, which was still pretty common in '90s. Hell, Air Koryo (North Korean airline) apparently still uses one.
50 years of service is a pretty decent record for a design from '50s which sounded like dental drill :-)

We are not recreating real history though. Anything goes!

Offline Sanabas

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2014, 11:43:03 AM »
That could be a fun challenge, keep the IL-18 production line open all game, and still be flying them in MT. Fuel bill would only be ~75% more than an F100.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 12:50:16 PM »
Kadachiman is right.

I have to laugh every time I make a strange order and people just copy what I do... totally missing I need a very special strategy at Los Angeles due to the extreme ranges and nearly no shorthaul demand.

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2014, 01:21:24 PM »
I guess King Air and "Ryan" had a field trip with my question. Gentleman last I checked Strats and Connies (unfortunately), Comets (also unfortunately),and I think all Russian props became Coke and Pepsi cans in the late 60"s while the the DC 6 is still a profitable AC today in certain parts of the world.
King air it's very cool that you help other players with your knowledge of this game, and it is very much appreciated by all, but your friend Ryan snickering comments are uncalled for . Be careful arrogance can bite you, once you think you have all the answers ...that's when you cease having them!

Sorry I came across that way, was not my intention.  I actually was trying to be helpful by pointing out a couple of factors that curse neglected to mention that are almost certainly costing you money in your competition with him on that route.

Offline tcrlaf

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2014, 11:01:47 PM »
Game tip - forget what the plane was like in real life and if it was a success or not, as the game does not necessarily follow real life success and failures to the tee, play the game with the specifications of the aircraft as your determining factor e.g the 'square window' Comets do not fall out of the sky in this game.

I have ordered many DC7B, DC7C and Super Connies mainly due to when they are available so that I can keep growing e.g. very few Connies, etc left in storage so if you have no planes coming in from your orders your growth will stop, I even threw in a few 'Double Decker' Breguet 763's for this reason.

In addition to the above point I have also leased them for long enough to ensure that I have a regular supply of my choice of jet replacements coming online as I phase out my props.

So forget the real life performance of individual planes and pay careful attention to the statistics of individual Makes and models instead.

There is no 'correct plane' as such as it really is what suits your airport, pax numbers and strategy the best.

ANY strategy at the beginning of the game is merely a guess. You have no idea when new planes will arrive, how far down the delivery list you will be, etc... Demand isn't settled yet, so you have to remain flexible in types, and strategies.

Online saetta

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2014, 11:27:40 PM »
Ryan, no worries I actually took your advice and cleaned up my LAX route...If I could only get more DC 6 generic or B, I would be happy!
They are extremely hard to get, and I refuse to go the Connie or Strat route

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2014, 11:47:44 PM »
Ryan, no worries I actually took your advice and cleaned up my LAX route...If I could only get more DC 6 generic or B, I would be happy!
They are extremely hard to get, and I refuse to go the Connie or Strat route

Oh I understand entirely.  I wish the DC-6 had been an option for me but I need all the range I can get down at the southern end of the water hemisphere, which means either Connies for the Starliner or Britannias for the 305 that hasn't launched yet.

Online saetta

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Re: DC 7 A and B and Boeing 377 Stratocruiser
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2014, 12:19:20 AM »
Ryan, Understand that territory very well. In my 2 other scenarios I am based in Montevideo and actually doing quite well..better then here ..so far. Argentina of course much bigger market. Yes the Britannia 305 is a nice machine...there will probably be a stampede to order it once it becomes available..I am considering it too, much more economical then early big jets. Good luck!!

 

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