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Author Topic: [-] sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best  (Read 780 times)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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This may sound like fun or weird, but it's a serious request. It's not meant as an offense or as a general protest or something, in no way, it's just something that not just I had in mind for a while but also many other players I talk to via Skype from different alliances.


What often happens to career politicians, instructors at the armed forces, soccer/football stars and others sometimes? They lose the feel not only for normal people but also lose the connection to what they used to work for.


This feature request has no special problem in mind, it should just bring back the general idea of the game - and what it is about for the player. Actually playing the game just for fun - without searching for bugs or testing a new feature - shows things that work well, like the new interface in many situations, but also some things that could be improved or others that are simply annoying - and of course things that are really pretty and good and should be extended or are fine as they are.


And, please don't be mad if I'm honest here, sami, some things are obvious for players. I know you play with your test airlines every now and then in a live world, but I really want to extend this request by some "requirement" that only shine through for real airlines about 70-80% of the players who play actively run.


1) The airport should  be a worldwide Top 30 airport. Maybe an airport with mixed domestic and long-haul like KJFK, KLAX or KORD to give an idea of everything and not just small snapshots like Haneda (ShortHaul) or Singapore (LongHaul) could deliver. Excluded are 0% tax airports like Dubai.
2) Start airline from day 1 in gameworld and experience Used market conditions.
3) Fly some of the popular aircraft types (A320/A330/B737NG,etc.)  (yes, jumping on that huge production line).
4) Switching schedules across aircraft types and generations (jets-props). I.e. not the easy 1:1 conversions.
5) Usage of at least 4 fleetgroups beyond 1990 to gameworld end.
6) Aim for  Top 10% placement in value, total operating revenue and aircraft in fleet.
7) At least some 7-day-schedules, one of them for aircraft with routes below 2000nm only (like DC-6B, A300, B737-800...). and go through a transition from 1 aircraft type to another (with similar speeds and TATs) B737 Classic to NG's for example.


Of course you could or even should play with a fresh account and without telling who you are. This avoids being handled differently by players (more aggressive or less aggresive when fighting against a famous person). This should last at least for the starting decade before things have settled a bit.

It would also be very helpful if you would post about progress or things you found that then could be discussed with the public and - yeah, shame on me - to make sure you really play. ;)


The goal of this request is easy:
You, sami, who makes this nice game, should not just get a notice in the feature request forum about something that might be wrong or simply uncomfortable. You should stumble above yourself which would make it easier for you to reenact things people (might) like or dislike - with your own experience.


And yeah, of course, I'm aware you have a job and you are short on time. But that's actually something we all suffer from and, to be honest, this might increase your feeling for shortcuts in the game that might be not implemented yet (easier access to information or creating 7-day-schedules or whatever).


:)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 05:36:28 PM by sami »

Offline Sami

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Re: sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 03:51:15 PM »
I did try to play in the previous beginner world against one guy I know but didn't have the time needed .. So it ended up in me putting up a ~15 strong airline and then just leaving it to fly till the end

Playing myself is a good trick to find various small things to improve in the UI

Offline meiru

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Re: sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 03:53:32 PM »
I like the idea... but it shouldn't be a beginner world  :)

Offline schro

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Re: sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 03:54:09 PM »
I did try to play in the previous beginner world against one guy I know but didn't have the time needed .. So it ended up in me putting up a ~15 strong airline and then just leaving it to fly till the end

Playing myself is a good trick to find various small things to improve in the UI

Sure, something like that helps you with some UI things, but experiencing the managing a huge airline with heavy competition in a world without rubber bumpers on the side is what curse is thinking will give you some perspective that a lot of us are talking about in the various feature requests/bug forums....

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 04:00:50 PM »
Yes, schro, that's what I had in my mind. I know this from myself: I'm very into a special topic for University or whatever but when I try to talk to friends or family about I notice I missed obvious things. Not obvious for me, because I'm too much into the thing, but obvious for other people.

@ sami
Of course AWS is time consuming. It's a nice game that creates lots of fun and we all know you have not just one job, but also running this game. Sometimes it's still important to take time for such an experience. May it be a year off sailing over the ocean, may it be an afternoon off before an important exam to have a nice dinner or may it take time to play the own game, to feel it, not just knowing the coding side.

I wasn't talking about a 1500+ aircraft airline with a Heathrow base. Especially Atlanta and Chicago with their huge slot numbers allow "small" big airlines in a very competitive environment.
The points 1)-7) are also nothing I just wrote down. Those things actually cover like 95% of the feature requests for the current game engine, they cover bug reports and they cover the things players put most time in due to my experience.

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 04:35:27 PM »
1) The airport should  be a worldwide Top 30 airport. Maybe an airport with mixed domestic and long-haul like KJFK, KLAX or KORD to give an idea of everything and not just small snapshots like Haneda (ShortHaul) or Singapore (LongHaul) could deliver. Excluded are 0% tax airports like Dubai.
2) Start airline from day 1 in gameworld and experience Used market conditions.
3) Fly some of the popular aircraft types (A320/A330/B737NG,etc.)  (yes, jumping on that huge production line).
4) Switching schedules across aircraft types and generations (jets-props). I.e. not the easy 1:1 conversions.
5) Usage of at least 4 fleetgroups beyond 1990 to gameworld end.
6) Aim for  Top 10% placement in value, total operating revenue and aircraft in fleet.
7) At least some 7-day-schedules, one of them for aircraft with routes below 2000nm only (like DC-6B, A300, B737-800...). and go through a transition from 1 aircraft type to another (with similar speeds and TATs) B737 Classic to NG's for example.
...
...
You should stumble above yourself which would make it easier for you to reenact things people (might) like or dislike - with your own experience.

LOL, Brilliant...


Can we bet on this ?? I bet he'll be cursing himself in less than a month...


I'd add one more point to the list: the base airport should be a slot hogged one...

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 04:41:31 PM »
Slot hogged airports require much more time. I really intended this as a serious request and I still hope sami will jump it and do it! A non-slot restricted airport like Atlanta or Chicago would be more than fine.

Offline meiru

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Re: sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 04:41:45 PM »
Yes, and for every xM you're airline is more valued than samis you get a credit for free  :P

Offline Sami

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Re: sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2014, 05:36:24 PM »
Yep, as mentioned no time for such a large scale "experiment" but I do still play from time to time in shorter term.

(hence my active questioning about playability in the long worlds etc. in previous threads)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: [-] sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2014, 06:31:04 PM »
I honestly don't see it as an experiment. It's an investment. You invest time, no question, but in return you get a lot of your own feature requests without the need of outside requests.


Don't get me wrong, but you decline lots of useful feature requests. I do understand some things are hard to code, but some are absolutely essential for gameplay. Let me give you some examples (no offense intended):
http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,51755.0.html
Yes, this is one of my own requests and there might somewhere been another one. But the feature is still missing. There's another problem: Not only is the navigation bar at the page top missing (like mentioned in the request) but also the pages are shortened like 1,2,3....7,8. If I want to go to page 5 I have to click 7 and then 6 and then 5. This increases load on your server by factor 3, wastes my time and annoys me.

Every player notices this as soon as he has about 40 aircraft + routes for them. It's one of these annoying day to day things.


Some things are hard to describe. Why isn't there a window showing arrival time + prefered turn around time (from settings) = next good departure time? You have to do math every new route.
Those are minor things you'll only notice if you actively play the game.


Or the production line thing like 707 in GW#4. It's just wrong. I don't have a solution yet for this but I think one can only feel the anger when is already part of that line and not just viewing it from an outside view or how extremely slot limiterd some airports are and what problems this actually causes as well as aircraft too small numbers.
You'd also notice some odd market share things. 14 flights per week (2x daily) vs. 6 flights per week and -20% standard price results in just 60% market share, both aircraft are Connies.

If you'd play the game, sami, you could investigate at the very same second why this has an odd behaviour. Or why your load factors in the route overview screen jump from week to week like +45% -60% + 80% - 60% + 50% - 60% or whatever without any reason.


Yeah, one could make a bug report about each of these things. But honestly, would it lead to something? Wouldn't it be just easier if you'd see this for yourself?

You could also see features that work nicely, like the new interface or the new search filters etc.



I stand by what I said:
I think it's essential to play the game like most players do (hence the "rules") to understand what we players sometimes complain about or why we do request a specific feature.

Offline Sami

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Re: [-] sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2014, 06:35:39 PM »
Yes, this is one of my own requests and there might somewhere been another one. But the feature is still missing.

To make it absolutely clear:

That thread was closed because an exact same issue has been requested in the past (near past even) and duplicates are always closed. An open request thread does not mean that the feature is coming, or that it is coming "today" like you seem to assume there.

But in the case of this particular request, it will be added at some point for sure (I blame our UI designer for missing that.. blah  :P) when I am doing other UI related things (quick page jump selector at the top of the page at least), but I for sure do not have time to jump back and forth based on single requests unless I am doing stuff "near" those things already.. (based on the tone in that thread where I got the idea that "it should be ready now!").
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 06:39:07 PM by sami »

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: [-] sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2014, 06:39:10 PM »
It was just an example of something you would probably notice the first week you'd play a full game. ;) It wasn't meant you should fix it now, but I like to illustrate what I mean to make it easier to follow, especially with my bad English.

Honestly, I was not around for how long? A year? And I posted this feature request two days after the game world started, so two days after I came back. And of course I talked to others before if they feel the same - and everybody agreed on this.


This doesn't mean it's the uber killer feature that must be there instantly or everybody dies. It's just the little things you notice when you use them on a daily basis. But as all things you use on a daily basis you want them as handy as possible. ;) It's like to have no shower in the apartement. Yes, you can go to that friend and take a shower there, but basically you'd love to have one at your own place because it's easier.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 06:41:43 PM by CUR$E »

Offline meiru

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Re: [-] sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2014, 09:40:28 PM »
That's right... you should test your software yourself. Work with it and you will soon see what's not good or annoying! I do this very often and realy often I improve something or create a new program to make something easier, bether and faster... (because I don't like doing stupid repetitive tasks)

Offline meiru

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Re: [-] sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2014, 09:43:40 PM »
... but also the pages are shortened like 1,2,3....7,8. If I want to go to page 5 I have to click 7 and then 6 and then 5. why we do

You don't believe how much I hate that! ... and I think it's a bug ... it should always be possible to click on the current page -3 to +3 (at least).

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: [-] sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2014, 10:22:20 PM »
This doesn't mean it's the uber killer feature that must be there instantly or everybody dies. It's just the little things you notice when you use them on a daily basis. But as all things you use on a daily basis you want them as handy as possible. ;)

I disagree. This kind of little things is what most contributes to get bored of the game.


If a game stops being a game and becomes a chore, it stops being fun.


When you have 50/100 aircrafts and 20 new are coming, and you have to 7day schedule them (or maybe not), you start looking it like a chore...

Day by day schedule, then scroll down page by page in scheduling page, then scroll down page by page in manage routes, then click route by route (out of hundreds possibilities) to see which ones are suitable for your plane, and the same goes again...


Many times it happened to me that I say; ufff, I have to schedule those 7 new planes; nah I'm not in the mood right now, I'll do it tomorrow, and I go watch some youtube vids or play something else... Then, of course, same thing happens tomorrow...

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: [-] sami to create a live airline without cheating and aim for the best
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2014, 05:33:48 AM »
That's basically what I say. I don't understand why I disagree and then agree with me. :D

 

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