AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: Help! No profit!  (Read 1602 times)

Offline Gevans

  • Members
  • Posts: 188
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2014, 08:31:34 PM »
Anyways........... what everyone is saying including Sami doesn't really tell me anything, it doesn't change the facts of what happened with these routes.
As near as I can tell........I still did everything right, I still don't know what went wrong other than not flying to Heathrow.

The research I did of Narita to LAX vs Chicago to Heathrow showed Heathrow had 20% more demand which I thought was not a big difference and the fact I have no competition in Narita made Narita a logical choice.

So I hope some of you can understand my bewilderment when I saw what a massive difference in loads, sales and profits there is between these two routes once I started flying..

The only thing I can think of was that Chicago to Heathrow is a shorter route and can probably be flown on a daily basis using the same plane.
Where Narita to LAX is much longer and therefore has to be flown with flights lasting over 24 hrs and requires multiple aircraft to achieve consistency.
It was a challenge......but I achieved a consistent service using several planes with all the flights landing or taking off during prime time.......5 am - 10:55 pm.

It appears the most profitable routes are ones you can fly roundtrip within a 24 hr cycle........this can make a big difference.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 08:41:45 PM by Gevans »

Offline LemonButt

  • Members
  • Posts: 1895
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2014, 08:54:53 PM »
That may be another issue--you weren't flying daily routes.  If you are flying every day, you will see significantly higher load factors than if you're not.

Offline Gevans

  • Members
  • Posts: 188
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2014, 08:59:54 PM »
I was flying to LAX every day and most days twice but it took 3 aircraft to do it.

Offline Jona L.

  • Members
  • Posts: 3361
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2014, 09:32:59 PM »
Don't believe in everything what the guys who "know everything" say.

LHR demand and pax allocation is calculated in the EXACT same way as ALL other airports.  (and I find it ridiculous even to suggest that LHR would have some special "boosts" or something in that way!)

(But still, in reality, London IS the biggest European finance/business centre and it has a very high business passenger base - the city airport for example wouldn't live without them).

As per flighstats.com of today (FR/28/MAR/2014).

Flights between JFK-LAX were 36 flights on various equipment (320, 757, 767 and a 744 connector from QF which I counted out), totaling about 6200-6400 seats.

Flights between LHR-LAX were 07 flights on various equipment (777, 340, 744, and 388), totaling roundabout 2300-2500 seats.

That makes JFK-LAX about 3-4 times larger than LAX-LHR. In GW4 the relative demand is exactly opposite. LAX-LHR is nearly 4x larger than LAX-JFK (1.1k vs 4.1k seats). Now there is a time difference of 50 yrs, but the demands grow relative to each other as far as I know, and not some airports growing faster than others...

Just a single example.

Offline LemonButt

  • Members
  • Posts: 1895
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2014, 10:02:21 PM »
He just said that the demand was calculated the same way, not that it was real world accurate :)

The wikipedia page for LAX says pax to JFK and LHR are 1.5 million/yr and 1.3 million/yr respectively so they are actually pretty close.  London technically has the busiest airport "system" with LHR being the biggest.

Current stats in GW2 (2002) versus today (2013):

1London Heathrow185 297 935 pax72 million
2Atlanta - Hartsfield-Jackson165 021 525 pax94 million
3Chicago - O'Hare146 419 722 pax67 million
4Los Angeles120 016 358 pax66 million
5Paris - Charles De Gaulle101 762 963 pax62 million

So the argument isn't really that LHR has over-estimated demand, but that every major airport has insane demand.  LHR has 2.5 the demand IRL, but ORD isn't much better at 2.16.  Considering LHR is the busiest international airport in the world, the most popular in the game, and is on an island I think it's safe to say the numbers are legit.  Madrid also comes in high at 80 million vs 39 million (2.05) and Gatwick at 73 million vs 34 million (2.15).

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

  • Members
  • Posts: 4028
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2014, 10:30:24 PM »
Problems gameplay wise is the ridiculous demand of premium seats (First Class and Business Class) Heathrow has. The proportion of nearly 1:1 (Premium vs. Economy) seems just wrong.

Offline Sanabas

  • Members
  • Posts: 2161
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2014, 03:09:58 AM »
Anyways........... what everyone is saying including Sami doesn't really tell me anything, it doesn't change the facts of what happened with these routes.
As near as I can tell........I still did everything right, I still don't know what went wrong other than not flying to Heathrow.

And based on what you've posted here, you didn't do everything right. But it's very hard to tell exactly what you did wrong, because we're basically guessing based on incomplete information, without knowing your scheduling, your prices, your actual supply vs the route's demand, or how accurate you are about the 'insane profit' of the airline in Chicago. Your daily profit numbers that you put when listing your planes make me think you've done something badly wrong, quite possibly you've got flights too close together. Flying most days twice will result in slower growth than flying two different routes (e.g. HNL, which memory tells me is big) once each, unless your single route has huge demand from day 1.

Quote
The research I did of Narita to LAX vs Chicago to Heathrow showed Heathrow had 20% more demand which I thought was not a big difference and the fact I have no competition in Narita made Narita a logical choice.

So I hope some of you can understand my bewilderment when I saw what a massive difference in loads, sales and profits there is between these two routes once I started flying..

How do you know that your view of the other route's loads, sales & profits is accurate?

Narita is a logical choice. Very large longhaul airport, with heaps of routes both west & east, it's an easy airport to make money in.

Quote
The only thing I can think of was that Chicago to Heathrow is a shorter route and can probably be flown on a daily basis using the same plane.
Where Narita to LAX is much longer and therefore has to be flown with flights lasting over 24 hrs and requires multiple aircraft to achieve consistency.
It was a challenge......but I achieved a consistent service using several planes with all the flights landing or taking off during prime time.......5 am - 10:55 pm.

It appears the most profitable routes are ones you can fly roundtrip within a 24 hr cycle........this can make a big difference.

No, it's not that the routes are significantly more profitable, it's that they're more likely to be run on an efficient schedule. I suspect your schedule is not very efficient.

Again, it should be easy to build a big airline having Narita to yourself. The answer isn't that you're doing everything right, but they're getting benefits you don't have. The answer is you're making mistakes that you don't realise. Posting a thread here trying to work out what boost of theirs to blame won't get you anywhere. Putting in a mentor request to help you learn what mistakes you're making, and learn how to not make them/do things better, that might help.

Offline Sami

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 14537
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2014, 04:00:05 AM »
Problems gameplay wise is the ridiculous demand of premium seats (First Class and Business Class) Heathrow has. The proportion of nearly 1:1 (Premium vs. Economy) seems just wrong.

No, in early era the premium passenger proportion is always higher. (on every airport)

Offline Gevans

  • Members
  • Posts: 188
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2014, 05:14:53 AM »
And based on what you've posted here, you didn't do everything right. But it's very hard to tell exactly what you did wrong, because we're basically guessing based on incomplete information, without knowing your scheduling, your prices, your actual supply vs the route's demand, or how accurate you are about the 'insane profit' of the airline in Chicago. Your daily profit numbers that you put when listing your planes make me think you've done something badly wrong, quite possibly you've got flights too close together. Flying most days twice will result in slower growth than flying two different routes (e.g. HNL, which memory tells me is big) once each, unless your single route has huge demand from day 1.

How do you know that your view of the other route's loads, sales & profits is accurate?

Narita is a logical choice. Very large longhaul airport, with heaps of routes both west & east, it's an easy airport to make money in.

No, it's not that the routes are significantly more profitable, it's that they're more likely to be run on an efficient schedule. I suspect your schedule is not very efficient.

Again, it should be easy to build a big airline having Narita to yourself. The answer isn't that you're doing everything right, but they're getting benefits you don't have. The answer is you're making mistakes that you don't realise. Posting a thread here trying to work out what boost of theirs to blame won't get you anywhere. Putting in a mentor request to help you learn what mistakes you're making, and learn how to not make them/do things better, that might help.

My usage is at 16 hrs and my punctuality is in the high 90's when the weather is good, I'm supplying no more than 50% of the demand on all my main routes and my arrivals all land during prime time and at alternating times.

When I first posted about this airline making an insane profit he was the #3 airline in Chicago and had one flight to Heathrow that he put all 3 of his A330's on.......the same amount of A330's I was flying to LAX.
He was basically doing the exact same thing as me.
He was the #1 most profitable airline in the game........making at least 50% more money than the next closest airline and 10 times more than me.
I actually had more efficient use of my aircraft, a higher CI and better punctuality than he did.......the difference was where he was flying to.
If I had flown to Heathrow instead from the beginning with all my aircraft I don't think I'd be here talking about this.

Anyways........how do I apply for a mentor ?
Because there's always things I can do better.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

  • Members
  • Posts: 4028
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2014, 09:42:48 AM »
No, in early era the premium passenger proportion is always higher. (on every airport)

In 2017 (GW#3) it's still ~2:1 (~9000:5000). No other airport has such extreme premium demands to nearly every place in the world, maybe exluding Unalaska and Pjongyang. ;)

moskosmine

  • Former member
Re: Help! No profit!
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2014, 07:35:41 AM »
These losses happen to me when i use used planes if i come back after a day and have a plane generating losses my money will be negative thats not fun

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.