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Author Topic: World Full  (Read 1655 times)

KM449

  • Former member
World Full
« on: January 03, 2014, 03:57:24 PM »
How could you ever start now in this Game world? All reasonable routes and Airports are full. Nearly all routes are 100-200% overserved.

1. How can a new Airline survive this??
2. Do you really think such long game worlds are good?!? I see no way to start an airline in the next 6-7 months without bankrupting it after two real days...

I have been succesfull in the past and founded the succesful Cloud9 alliance about a year ago.   

Offline Sanabas

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Re: World Full
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2014, 05:08:27 PM »
There are only 250 players in the gameworld. I guarantee there are heaps of spots that you can build a successful airline in. There will even be spots you can build a huge airline in.

KM449

  • Former member
Re: World Full
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2014, 05:09:14 PM »
no

Offline LemonButt

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Re: World Full
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2014, 05:11:36 PM »
I'm not in JA, but just out of curiousity--what were the suggested base airports from the base finder?

Offline Sanabas

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Re: World Full
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2014, 05:45:41 PM »
no

yes.  :laugh:

I'm not currently in JA either. Would need to pick up a mentor request to see what the airports currently look like. But I am 100% certain that there are at least a couple of dozen airports, probably a lot more, that I could open in now, which is late 1983 in-game, and reach 1990 with a fleet size of at least 200. I just don't know exactly which airports those are.

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: World Full
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2014, 05:53:51 PM »
(Or you can just join the world and scout it for 15mins, and get the 5cr back if you quit before the 15min limit)

Offline Sanabas

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Re: World Full
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2014, 06:00:38 PM »
You can? Never knew that.

Offline Sami

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Offline dmoose42

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Re: World Full
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2014, 08:11:41 PM »
I just started a new airline in BOM in DOTM which has roughly the same number of players and have not had a problem starting up.  I think there's probably a lot of opportunity in JA - you may have competition, but a number of those airlines are probably weaker than you think.  If you want suggestions as to where to start, PM me.

dmoose42

Online [SC] - King Kong

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Re: World Full
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2014, 10:31:37 PM »
All your problems are solved when city based demand is introduced

Offline Noble.

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Re: World Full
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2014, 10:39:50 PM »
All your problems are solved when city based demand is introduced

Sorry for asking, I've seen this mentioned elsewhere a few times but never explained. How is city based demand going to work (different from the current prediction system for demand), and when is it due to be implemented (if you know)?  :)

Dustin

  • Former member
Re: World Full
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2014, 04:36:51 AM »
1. How can a new Airline survive this??
2. Do you really think such long game worlds are good?!? I see no way to start an airline in the next 6-7 months without bankrupting it after two real days...

I sympathize with you (I am in the questioned gameworld btw).  Because of the long game format, most of the big airlines are in an insanely profitable state.   Some aren't touchable.   On the other hand, they probably aren't paying close enough attention to even notice you.  Your best bet and answer to your question number one is to find a big airline that appears on the brink of failure and base in one of their hubs.  That's easier said than done, but with the 15 minute preview Sami mentioned, it is possible.   Another option is, if you have connections to an existing alliance as you implied, ask them to help you into the game.

To answer your #2, this gameworld is probably only fun for those who started from the beginning.  I think it can be a good idea, but it will need some pretty huge tweaks for competitiveness if Sami wants to make it the revolving jet age to modern age game he talked about.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: World Full
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2014, 05:13:28 AM »
I sympathize with you (I am in the questioned gameworld btw).  Because of the long game format, most of the big airlines are in an insanely profitable state.   Some aren't touchable.   On the other hand, they probably aren't paying close enough attention to even notice you.  Your best bet and answer to your question number one is to find a big airline that appears on the brink of failure and base in one of their hubs.  That's easier said than done, but with the 15 minute preview Sami mentioned, it is possible.   Another option is, if you have connections to an existing alliance as you implied, ask them to help you into the game.

Any airport where the leader in marketshare is a big airline using it as a secondary hub is one that should be a good choice to start in, regardless of the financial state of that big airline. It's simply not possible to fill a decent-sized airport with 100 planes.

I'm going to test this 15 minute thing, and make a quick list of at least a dozen potential airports...

Offline Sanabas

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Re: World Full
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2014, 05:42:39 AM »
So, I didn't even look at Europe or the US, and I came up with the following list, all airports that I'm certain I could start in now and be very successful, and in some cases, build 500+ plane airlines:

Johannesburg
Algiers
Casablanca
Sharm El Sheikh
Monastir
Sydney
Melbourne
Perth
Beunos Aires
Rio de Janeiro
Quito
Brasilia
Pudahuel
Lima
Tokyo-Narita
Seoul
Taipei
Sapporo
Mumbai
Naha

Also Sao Paulo, which is a little over 12 months away from opening, so both existing airlines will likely go there, leaving the current Sao Paulo airport near empty, with a huge amount of domestic demand.

Seoul, Narita or somewhere in Brazil are probably the best options on that list for really big growth. Narita or Sapporo are probably the easiest place to have a 50-100 plane, profitable airline. There are 20 airports there that should be reasonably easy places to get started, with minimal risk of being squashed, with plenty of slots available, with no really big airline HQed with you and therefore not a great deal of long-term competition, unless one of the small/new airlines also grows. There are options for different airlines. Shorthaul & domestic like Japan or Brazil. Isolated & longhaul like Lima or Pudahuel. Short-medium haul international, like any of the north african airports. There were also at least another 20 options for size-4 airports, or with slightly more competition, that I didn't make a proper note of. Like Auckland, Adelaide, Lagos, multiple airports on page 2 of Asia.

And there will be just as many choices in Europe/US. The airport finder pointed me to an empty palm beach.

The world is far from full.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 05:44:56 AM by Sanabas »

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: World Full
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2014, 09:27:34 AM »
Oh boy, you've made JA so temping now  8)

KM449

  • Former member
Re: World Full
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014, 09:36:52 AM »
many thanks for all the help!

But for example I looked at Melbourne when i was searching a base. All 20 top routes are oversupplied by up to 200%. And all other routes seem to have way less than 150 pax per day demand. How could you ever build up a big airline?

Offline Sanabas

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Re: World Full
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2014, 10:08:09 AM »
I didn't even look at routes, only a quick look at slots and airlines that are there.

For somewhere like Melbourne, it's relatively isolated, with plenty of longer routes and a handful of big, short ones. So I'd start with 100-150 seaters, fly maybe up to 6-8 times/day to Sydney/Brisbane/Adelaide/Hobart/Canberra, covering up to about 25% of demand. That should take at least your first 8 planes, possibly more. Melb-Syd in particular is big enough that you can pretty much guarantee you can supply ~750 seats and sell at least 500 right from the start. And I think the two big aussie airlines were actually HQed in Brisbane, so Melb-Syd shouldn't have huge numbers of flights. That'll make plenty of cash, and you can go from there. Start including Perth, NZ, Cairns, etc. Then add another plane type, something to start flying LH. Might be DC-10, might be older DC-8/707, might be something else. Dunno what the used/new markets look like.

KM449

  • Former member
Re: World Full
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014, 02:22:27 PM »
This is a good plan for an empty world. Demand numbers for Melbourne look great.

But in this case ALL routes are oversupplied. In every Airport I am left with routes with about 100-150 pax/day. I started 4 times now all around the world and with those routes my Load factor never went above 35% until I went into the reds... I tried with 30 passenger planes, 150 pax planes, 75 pax planes...

Really, show me how you build up an airline in melbourne with 50 planes and Longhaul with 3 other strong carriers there and oversupplied routes and I believe you all.

If you wonder: I am spending for Marketing, just one fleet type, no salary cuts, no changes in ticket prices....I know most of the tricks to start an airline I think...
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 02:24:42 PM by KM449 »

Offline Sanabas

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Re: World Full
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2014, 04:04:16 PM »
This is a good plan for an empty world. Demand numbers for Melbourne look great.

It will work in this world too.

Quote
But in this case ALL routes are oversupplied. In every Airport I am left with routes with about 100-150 pax/day. I started 4 times now all around the world and with those routes my Load factor never went above 35% until I went into the reds... I tried with 30 passenger planes, 150 pax planes, 75 pax planes...

It is better to start on an oversupplied, 3,000+ pax/day route than an undersupplied, 100 pax/day route. If you've set up well with your starting cash, it's also possible to survive some losses, some negative cash, while waiting for loads to climb. Better to be profitable from the start, of course. And Melbourne might be a bit tougher thanks to rapidly increasing slot costs. But regardless of where you start, very big routes beat empty, 1 plane/day routes when it comes to quick profitability.

Quote
Really, show me how you build up an airline in melbourne with 50 planes and Longhaul with 3 other strong carriers there and oversupplied routes and I believe you all.

If you wonder: I am spending for Marketing, just one fleet type, no salary cuts, no changes in ticket prices....I know most of the tricks to start an airline I think...

I'm not inspired enough to start my own airline at the moment, (and I've already convinced myself it's feasible.  ;)) but if you start and stick in a mentor request, I'll pick it up and try and offer more detailed advice.

KM449

  • Former member
Re: World Full
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2014, 04:30:37 PM »
ok...I will try my Luck in Melbourne! ;)

I wull Report here regarding my Progress. Many Thanks again for your time.

 

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