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Author Topic: Brokers buying aircraft?  (Read 828 times)

Offline LemonButt

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Brokers buying aircraft?
« on: December 03, 2013, 11:57:41 PM »
Is anyone seeing the brokers buy their listed aircraft?  I have ~20 NAMC YS11-500 on the market listed at ~50% of book value, some of which have been listed for a year now and haven't had a single broker buy a plane.  I feel like I may have to hold on to them for another 10 years and scrap them to see any money out of it :(

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2013, 01:53:32 AM »
Yep. They've bought a few of my B732A at ~ value or so

And my past experience tells me don't count on them. They've always purchased the least expected A/C you're selling, never the one you want sold most, even at great discount

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 02:43:25 AM »
Yep. They've bought a few of my B732A at ~ value or so

And my past experience tells me don't count on them. They've always purchased the least expected A/C you're selling, never the one you want sold most, even at great discount

The used market is flush with planes--I can't really count on other players buying them either.  I have ~20 on the market and another ~40 I planned on selling (fleet upgrade), but it looks like I may be stuck with them...

What's even more annoying is keeping them maintained when they are stuck on the market for 1+ year.

Offline 11Air

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 09:21:21 AM »
All part of the problems that don't exist in the real world. Sami is well aware, but his time is limited. Perhaps the solution is in the real world. Third world airline (or third base in the third world). No checks, no insurance, just fly them a bit.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 02:09:48 PM »
I think the issue is just that the broker settings are set for normal game worlds instead of ultra-long game worlds where you have a lot more fleet upgrades and aircraft being turned over.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 02:40:23 PM »
If they've been on the market for a year at 50% of book value, and nobody's wanted them, then why should the broker buy them? They're not going to be able to find a customer, either.

The brokers shouldn't be there to give you extra cash just because you don't want to keep using your planes.

brique

  • Former member
Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 04:23:08 PM »
Sanabas has a point : but up to a point : if rotating fleets becomes too difficult, in terms of getting rid of the older types, then it will act as a drag on re-fleets and so planes will tend to start getting flown until scrap age : all well and good, but then we will also see a lot more types going out of production early : some types may never get ordered at all if their intro date falls inside many operators 'dead zone' for fleet replacements : that is, its too soon to scrap your old ones unless you fancy, or can afford, seeing them sit on the market for years : and so we all will end up chasing the same few types that we can be certain will stay in production : nice for Boring and Hairbrush afficianados, a bit dull for the rest of us though.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 09:19:08 PM »
If they've been on the market for a year at 50% of book value, and nobody's wanted them, then why should the broker buy them? They're not going to be able to find a customer, either.

The brokers shouldn't be there to give you extra cash just because you don't want to keep using your planes.

The aircraft are less than 10 years old.  Brokers should buy them because that is what brokers do.  IRL there are countries still flying the DC-3.  Every aircraft has value somewhere.  Should it be that if you buy an aircraft you are stuck with it the entire game world despite the fact there is still 30+ years left to go?  If a broker is not going to buy it, I should be able to scrap it today and not have to wait another 5-10 years.

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 10:19:45 PM »
Why are you even buying aircraft that you want to get rid of in less than 10 years that are of a type not in wide use?  Isn't that what leasing is for?

TomislavZG

  • Former member
Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 11:37:16 PM »
There should be possibility that we could sell our newer acft for half price to some parts dealer or sth. Reality is that a lot of A340 are being scrapped and some of them are less than 15 years old.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 11:38:49 PM »
Why are you even buying aircraft that you want to get rid of in less than 10 years that are of a type not in wide use?  Isn't that what leasing is for?

1. To avoid the taxman.
2. Because it IS in wide use (see attached screenshot).
3. Because buying aircraft when you have the capital available and selling it for less is nearly ALWAYS cheaper than leasing.
4. Because you can buy an aircraft below book value, thus increasing your CV and increasing your credit limit and giving you a bigger lifeline if you need one.

Plus, I'm not the only one who can't sell aircraft (see second screenshot).  There are 4000 732 in service and there are a ton not being sold either, not to mention the other types.

Offline Blur CEO

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 12:22:09 AM »
Ive got a few my self that have been for sale for a few months. I am debating just using them until they fall apart after reading this.

Offline 11Air

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 09:33:41 AM »
Perhaps the solution lies with making cost of C and D checks chargeable to the Owner. If the Owner is not bankrupt then ownership passes to the leaser IF they accept the C/D costs.

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2013, 04:10:29 PM »
1. To avoid the taxman.
2. Because it IS in wide use (see attached screenshot).
3. Because buying aircraft when you have the capital available and selling it for less is nearly ALWAYS cheaper than leasing.
4. Because you can buy an aircraft below book value, thus increasing your CV and increasing your credit limit and giving you a bigger lifeline if you need one.

Plus, I'm not the only one who can't sell aircraft (see second screenshot).  There are 4000 732 in service and there are a ton not being sold either, not to mention the other types.

1.) Perfectly valid reason, but the idea that the brokers should be modified to make gaming the broken tax system even more profitable is a bit odd...

2) Point taken, and wow I've never seen the -100 and -200 have that few orders. 

3) If you can sell it, the selling part is always something of a crapshoot unless the type has a very long backlog for new units.  If you can't in fact sell the aircraft the break even point is usually somewhere around 7-8 years iirc, though it has been a very long time since I looked at that.

4) Again, a perfectly valid reason to buy aircraft but again why should the brokers be modified to make buying aircraft you never intend to operate and can't find a lessee for even more effective at running up CV than it already is?

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2013, 04:20:52 PM »
3) If you can sell it, the selling part is always something of a crapshoot unless the type has a very long backlog for new units.  If you can't in fact sell the aircraft the break even point is usually somewhere around 7-8 years iirc, though it has been a very long time since I looked at that.

4) Again, a perfectly valid reason to buy aircraft but again why should the brokers be modified to make buying aircraft you never intend to operate and can't find a lessee for even more effective at running up CV than it already is?

The breakeven is 7-8 years if you don't sell it.  If you can buy an aircraft, fly it for 4 years, and sell it at 50% or higher then you're coming out ahead (or fly for 2 years, sell 75%+ etc).  I did buy the aircraft with the intent of operating them, which is where the problem is.  I have ~20 for sale and another ~40 I own/operate and plan on selling once new aircraft arrive to complete a fleet upgrade.  The issue is more opportunity cost (I put in a feature request) as the game doesn't allow me to scrap the aircraft--only sell it.  Getting $100 in cash is worth more than a $10 million asset generating no return (or a negative return if I keep maintenance up to date).  If I could scrap them, I would--but I'm not allowed.

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: Brokers buying aircraft?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2013, 03:22:30 AM »
Quote
Used Aircraft Center

Eagle Aircraft Inc. has purchased your Boeing 737-200Adv aircraft with a sum of 19 031 000 USD. The aircraft has now left your fleet and is now flying with the new owner.

Thank you for using our services.

One of mine got sold at almost its value. It was an 8 years old as you can still see in your pic attached
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 03:24:38 AM by Mr.HP »

 

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