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Author Topic: Dan Dantes  (Read 3224 times)

rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2013, 12:52:05 AM »
I didn't pick up any slots, as I already stated here before you posted.  I am leaving LHR and offering you all my slots and planes at discounted rates.

I am pleased that sami has acknowledged your behaviour as unethical, and I appreciate your continued denial of doing anything wrong.

Mail me and we can discuss a timely slot transfer, and plane transfer, which will ensure that you are and continue to be the greatest airline in AWS.

Regards

Offline SAC

  • Members
  • Posts: 4212
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2013, 12:54:46 AM »
Where's Sigma, and his padlock when you need him  ::)
...it's not over until I say it's over

Offline LemonButt

  • Members
  • Posts: 1895
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2013, 01:18:37 AM »
So you were found guilty of acting "unethically" by sami, claim to be the most honest player in the game, and I'm somehow the bad guy?  I said nothing I felt was out of line and many my comments were speculation due to multiple coincidences appearing to not be so coincidental, but much of it was fact.  We may never know why Dan joined DOTM and based at LHR with the ridiculous circumstances surrounding it, which no one else seems to be curious about.

You may feel you did nothing wrong because it was within the "rules", but you should know better as there are plenty of instances of players being disciplined for not breaking the rules, but using unethical strategies.  I don't remember the name of the player, but remember the guy who got busted for using an auto-refresh plugin on his browser that refreshed the used aircraft market page for 8+ hours straight?  Not explicitly against the rules, but clearly out of line.

You can even refer to my first post on this thread:
I like to remain objective on these sort of things and I find it hard to believe that this isn't true.  For those who were paying attention, DanDantes also started an airline in DOTM about 5 years in out of LHR where there were zero slots.  The airline with the highest CV in DOTM currently is one of the Elite alliance managers.  I remember wondering what the heck Dan was doing as he is a strong player and wouldn't make a rookie mistake of basing at an airport like LHR late in the game that had zero slots available at the time.  Anyways, it was short lived as I presume he was running the same scheme trying to pick up slots for the alliance, but I'm guessing that slots at LHR that late in the game cost more than the startup cash and he didn't get very far.  The DOTM game logs would be able to refute or confirm this, which of course only sami has access to.

I don't like to cast stones, but Elite bills themselves as the best alliance winning 10 straight game worlds, blah blah blah.  You don't "win" 10 times in a row on accident and make rookie mistakes like this, especially if you are a seasoned player such as DanDantes.  The coincidences are really adding up and instead of being an alliance of "airlines working in loose cooperation" it appears, on the surface at least, that there are multiple airlines working in collusion to use anti-competitive strategies.

On a positive note, the implementation of terminals in the future would eliminate the possibility of this even happening in future game worlds.

And how exactly am I infamous?  The only reason I chimed in the first place is because I saw similar activity from Dan that would indicate something was afoot.  I'm not even in MT9 and am completely unaffected by this, but I like playing AWS and if players are gaming the system at another player's expense without recourse, one day that other player is going to me, which is why I felt compelled to add my observations.

I am in DOTM6 though and you mentioned British Transport getting 800 slots and no one went crying to administration.  Just because he didn't get caught doesn't justify your actions and make them any more righteous.  It sounds like the only reason he wasn't disciplined for also acting unethically is because no one spoke up and hopefully sami is now looking into this as well.  I have been trying to get slots to fly to LHR for years now and I'm sure there are others who would like a "fair" shot at actually competing on routes to LHR.

In regards to terminals being implemented, if all terminal space/slots from BK'd airlines went to the general slots pool for airlines that aren't based at the airport, none of this would ever happen.

rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2013, 01:41:40 AM »
Just to clarify and for the record - JetWest you state you are fair and honest.  You have been reprimanded by the moderator Sami for your "unethical" play in sami's own words and ordered to return 70% of the slots.

This may be considered a victory for fair play, so the 3rd time of reporting was a worthwhile report.  I am certain that there are unreported instances of other unethical play from you, the old adage once unethical always unethical springs to mind.

Perhaps I should not have reported this but my inbox was buzzing with comments from members saying "well done" for having the balls to challenge the way you abuse the system.

Thank you everyone for your positive inbox comments.

Offline Teadaze

  • Members
  • Posts: 777
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2013, 01:49:59 AM »
So you were found guilty of acting "unethically" by sami, claim to be the most honest player in the game, and I'm somehow the bad guy?  I said nothing I felt was out of line and many my comments were speculation due to multiple coincidences appearing to not be so coincidental, but much of it was fact.  

somehow LemonButt has all the 'fact'. And what does unethical has to do with honest?

You may feel you did nothing wrong because it was within the "rules", but you should know better as there are plenty of instances of players being disciplined for not breaking the rules, but using unethical strategies.  I don't remember the name of the player, but remember the guy who got busted for using an auto-refresh plugin on his browser that refreshed the used aircraft market page for 8+ hours straight?  Not explicitly against the rules, but clearly out of line.

automation, bane of online simulation/games. Unethical, not morally correct.


I am in DOTM6 though and you mentioned British Transport getting 800 slots and no one went crying to administration.  Just because he didn't get caught doesn't justify your actions and make them any more righteous.  It sounds like the only reason he wasn't disciplined for also acting unethically is because no one spoke up and hopefully sami is now looking into this as well.  I have been trying to get slots to fly to LHR for years now and I'm sure there are others who would like a "fair" shot at actually competing on routes to LHR.

Not like he didn't get caught. Many people who is semi active and hunting for LHR slot, or affiliated with an airline in LHR will know one way or another(be it a victory dance in a chat channel or airline progress report. But then again what are you going to do about it if someone did timed a transfer? cry about it like this thread? You are in one of the most slot restricted airport in game, someone who decide to fold and tell you an approx. time of their folding so you can grab them, or you somehow happen to be online when he bankrupt. Are you going to grab as much as you can? or be a SAINT and let everyone else grab it and not do anything(or god forbids, grab a section of the slot and let other take it)? In a business/strategy POV it is obvious 99% of the population will do. And if you do not you might as well sell all your precious plane at lowest system price ever, when you see someone invade your route you delete your own route, or easier, if someone open a new airline on your slot locked airport. Click that bankrupt button :)  (oh right I did see someone restart out of the blue, to a top 5 demand airport in EU @ JA who only have 1 dominated airline, those 2 airline have 0 alliance affiliation. And a RL week later that major airline BK and the relocated airline got a nice head start before everyone else manage to flood into that airport. Yet he is here complaining about this situation....)

Obviously I am lost and confused, and probably brainwashed by the evil alliance in this game. So enlighten me, what are you going to do if someone pull this on you?


« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 01:53:59 AM by Aoitsuki »

Offline ZombieSlayer

  • Members
  • Posts: 3921
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2013, 01:55:38 AM »
Just to clarify and for the record - JetWest you state you are fair and honest.  You have been reprimanded by the moderator Sami for your "unethical" play in sami's own words and ordered to return 70% of the slots.

This may be considered a victory for fair play, so the 3rd time of reporting was a worthwhile report.  I am certain that there are unreported instances of other unethical play from you, the old adage once unethical always unethical springs to mind.

Perhaps I should not have reported this but my inbox was buzzing with comments from members saying "well done" for having the balls to challenge the way you abuse the system.

Thank you everyone for your positive inbox comments.

I will give you the Dante's bankruptcy. The exact action has happened before with other players, so I thought nothing of it, but that does not make it right. Shame on me, I apologize for what happened, I gave slots back, now moving on.

But please, pray tell, how have I abused the system before? The answer is I have not, not once, and any evidence you *think* you have is trash. If you want to know how to -legally- grab slots fast when they are dropped, please read the manual. It is spelled out in very clear language if you know where to look. Or better yet, just look very closely at the various in game screens. Its so simple a monkey could figure it out.

In EVERY slot drop I acted fully within the rules and did nothing that ANY player who knows the way the system works wouldn't do. Instead of blaming me for your inability to compete, maybe take the time to learn how the game works?

Hey, maybe you could break a few more players trust and post their PM's here? I would love to know who else knows so little about me that they think I would regularly cheat to win.

I'm done here. My blood is boiling, but I will be the better man and move on.

Don

PS, I am anxiously awaiting your rage bankruptcy. Plenty of spare airplanes waiting to take to the skies....
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

altmants

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2013, 05:02:14 AM »
I want some of those slots! All i want is enough for 1 daily flight!

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2013, 06:37:20 AM »
The whole episode is yet another reason why LHR should be brought down a notch.  Either by reducing demand or by increasing slots to ~130, in line with other airports in the US with similar demand.

Is something that is a non-event everywhere "unethical" at LHR?  I have to disagree with using such a strong language.  It seems that every single game world has these theatrics.  The chances are, just playing to win at LHR, means accusations and penalties are likely to fly your way...

In my opinion, it is not the players, it is the airport and how it is set up.  It has half of the slots required to serve its demand.

Offline Herman

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2013, 07:12:30 AM »
The whole episode is yet another reason why LHR should be brought down a notch.  Either by reducing demand or by increasing slots to ~130, in line with other airports in the US with similar demand.

Is something that is a non-event everywhere "unethical" at LHR?  I have to disagree with using such a strong language.  It seems that every single game world has these theatrics.  The chances are, just playing to win at LHR, means accusations and penalties are likely to fly your way...

In my opinion, it is not the players, it is the airport and how it is set up.  It has half of the slots required to serve its demand.
You are absolutely correct. Increase slots in LHR in future games up to ATL, ORD or DFW levels, and possibly do the same for CDG and FRA too, and the issue is fixed. I have never seen a kid cry about not being able to get a slot in any of the US airports ...

rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2013, 07:25:27 AM »
Finally the moral of the story here is do what ever you want that gets you the edge play hard to win, don't break the rules but, bend them slightly unethically, un-sportingly that is fine and good, using innovative and ingenious techniques all within the rules.

Get caught and the action is being taken back to the position you were previously in without any penalty, just a pro-rata reduction, based on the unethical play.

Don't get caught and you will reap the rewards.

It seems to me the green light has been given to be as unethical as you like in the game and throw fairness out of the window.

That is how I will be playing in future, if you can't beat them join them, I hope everyone else has learned from this experience that that is how the game is played.  Honestly, and fairly with a touch of unethical thrown in to help you succeed.

There is not a lot of point in reporting anything suspicious, as this thread is a testament to how far it will get you.

rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2013, 07:44:59 AM »
Interestingly members of Elite in the previous thread were against this sort of play I refer you to the thread:

http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,49907.0.html

Wile E Coyote who stated it was an open shut case of cheating and the previous consensus was that this type of practice was considered cheating, rather than unethical.

    Re: Picking up slots for a team member?
Reply #14 on: 23 October 2013, 15:46:55    
________________________________________
This is an open and shut case Saftibaby, slots are bought to be flown by purchasing airline.  Its even against the rules to close a newly purchased route that has not flown and re-use the slot yourself somewhere else...never mind handing it over to another airline.  If you have evidence of this I am sure Sami would like to hear about it.

Offline Elyk1981

  • Members
  • Posts: 342
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2013, 08:24:52 AM »
Hey Ricky,

As you seem to be able to put so much time and energy into this thread, can you please find out how British Air Transport (not a member of the Elite Alliance) was able to obtain on two different  occasions over 800 slots at LHR within 10 minutes with out cheating!!

The issue is 4 times bigger then the one you're referring to in the modern times 9.

Sami, will 70% of these slots be returned??

Thanks elyk

Offline Infinity

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    • Aviation Awareness
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2013, 09:08:43 AM »
Oh, just one quick hint for Ricky, there is in fact an edit function, so there is no need to create to subsequent posts the way you created yourself a second account  ;)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 09:42:29 AM by saftfrucht »

Offline SAC

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2013, 09:38:03 AM »
This is an open and shut case Saftibaby, slots are bought to be flown by purchasing airline.  Its even against the rules to close a newly purchased route that has not flown and re-use the slot yourself somewhere else...never mind handing it over to another airline.  If you have evidence of this I am sure Sami would like to hear about it.


There are similarities, and differences, although that case, unlike this episode, was never looked into.  It was thought the airline aquiring the LHR slots never used, or intended to, use them.  In this case Dan full used all slots and wanted to beat Jetwest, only on giving up was Don able to get the slots as Dan announced to all he was quitting.  

Another instance has now been mentioned comprising 4 times as many slots...lets see if you all jump on that band waggon ehhh !

I back up what Jumbo and Herman say, and as I said yesterday...tactics to aquire slots will continue while the system works like it does, especially at LHR.

The system needs an overhaul, and LHR tweeking maybe as it is biggest trouble causer with AWS.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 09:41:16 AM by Wile E Coyote »
...it's not over until I say it's over

Offline jamier

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  • Posts: 375
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2013, 11:15:01 AM »
Bore off already Ricky, basically your jealous your getting beat at LHR which is why you are constantly having a go at Elite.

rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2013, 11:56:37 AM »
Ahhhh yet another Elite member crawls out of the woodwork, disgruntled that his alliance members unethical approach to the game has been exposed.   The only thing I am annoyed about is unethical slot grabbing, that spoils the game for everyone else.

Offline Infinity

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  • Posts: 1564
    • Aviation Awareness
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2013, 12:05:04 PM »
Who are you to complain about unethical behavior? WHO THE HELL? Really, as if your vest was so white. You are making a right joke out of yourself here.
Getting information from a source to which you should have absolutely no access via some clandestine connection, is that in your eyes _AT ALL_ more ethically correct than what we did? It is much more unethical even.

If you had a single decent fibre in your body you would tell us who that scumbag is so we can remove him, yet you keep it secret and continue to call US unehtical. If that isn't the joke of the century...

brique

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2013, 12:13:53 PM »
Who are you to complain about unethical behavior? WHO THE HELL? Really, as if your vest was so white. You are making a right joke out of yourself here.
Getting information from a source to which you should have absolutely no access via some clandestine connection, is that in your eyes _AT ALL_ more ethically correct than what we did? It is much more unethical even.

If you had a single decent fibre in your body you would tell us who that scumbag is so we can remove him, yet you keep it secret and continue to call US unehtical. If that isn't the joke of the century...

Okay this is getting a bit surreal : he is unethical for not telling you who told him an elite member was acting unethically and then you can throw the unethical whistleblower out for revealling this unethical behaviour : well and good, will you be dispatching the actual unethical member that actually did the unethical act the unethical whistleblower unethically revealled? Or would that be unethical?

Offline Kadachiman

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2013, 12:16:50 PM »
Hey, maybe you could break a few more players trust and post their PM's here? I would love to know who else knows so little about me that they think I would regularly cheat to win.

No need for Ricky to expose others - I was one of the players that sent him a 'well done' message.
And for yours and others records - YES I do believe that many Elite Alliance members are cheats

Offline SAC

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2013, 12:31:17 PM »
Elite members do nothing other alliances don't do, except maybe win ;)   Other alliances exchange slots, its been mentioned twice just above - one of them 800 slots compared to the 200 in question here, but yet again you, and others, fail to mention them - conveniently  ::)  This is a Elite witch hunt due to our continued success, and nothing more.
...it's not over until I say it's over

 

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