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Author Topic: Dan Dantes  (Read 3221 times)

Offline Kadachiman

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2013, 12:13:25 PM »
A good solution yet again Sami.

To others - I have posted previously that it amazes me on how many ways certain Alliances can find to cheat....ofcourse they call it 'good play'...but is it 'fair play'
If it is not fair play then it is cheating....regardless of how many roses you want to surround your actions with.

The thing that really gets me...is that they chose to cheat at a online game?...really? ... get a life guys
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 12:15:35 PM by Kadachiman »

rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2013, 01:04:06 PM »
It does remind me of the all American hero Lance Armstrong, winner of the Tour de France 7 times in a row, until finally he was exposed as nothing more than a cheat, and his victories a sham!

altmants

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2013, 11:17:36 PM »
so what was the conclusion of the investigation?

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2013, 10:15:19 AM »
that all alliances cheat

Offline Andre

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2013, 03:47:14 PM »
A slot quota - how many slots airline can get within certain time period - will be introduced some time soon (at slot restricted airports). Reasons why - I think anyone can guess.

(on mobile so only short comment.. Investigation pending me getting back to a pc..)

I was gonna suggest this... it's how it's done in the real world.

And I understand rickyricky101 and his frustration. But King Kong is right, all the alliances communicate with each other (at least the ones who play seriously) to let each other know when people bankrupt, both for the sake of slots and for used aircraft. On the other hand, I've never heard of an airline being started just to hoard slots, with the goal of going bankrupt to release them to other members. If that has happened, it's just pure cheating.

rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2013, 04:21:37 PM »
The point is it was a scam bankruptcy as the company was very profitable and worth 2.5billion.  The communication was from Dantes to PacAir comprising of- time of bankruptcy and thank you for your slots!

Offline Infinity

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2013, 05:07:10 PM »
Seriously, could you just please be quiet with your slandering here? It's beyond what's even remotely appropriate. There has been some wild jumping to conclusions in this thread far, far beyond the truth and I find it absolutely disrespectful. We will make a very detailled public statement on this after Sami has made a decision, then everyone can make a picture of the situation. Until then, I suggest you stop selling a mistake in our base planning as a wildly elaborate evil masterplan, thank you very much. It is just indecent.

Offline SAC

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2013, 05:48:01 PM »
As manager of Elite I have been shown much evidence that Dan and Jetwest did not plan this from day 1.  There are PM's that Sami could see if he wanted.  Below is a transcript of the Skype conversations when it was spotted that we had a base clash.  So this 100% stops accusations of a long term plan for this to happen.

Regarding a heads up, I really do not know what people expect to be honest. These two airlines know of each other and have been in the same alliance previously, would one really hide the fact he was pulling the plug from the other, and if he did not hide it then the other airline would be daft not to prepare...more so if based at LHR as slots go like hot cakes.

Communication like this happens all of the time on various issues - slot releases or a/c launches etc etc, by all alliances, and many players all of the time.  

This whole issue has been magnified as this happened at LHR  - again !  It caused trouble in MT8, and we'll see it in MT10 again if something positive does not change re ; slot system.  Maybe if Sami put in the rules that co-ordinated slot releases are forbidden than that would help this scenario (this rule does not currently exist - so its easy to see why airlines would do this), but that is scratching the surface of the core problem.  I really hope we can collectively assist Sami with a solution for the ongoing slot problem once and for all.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 06:12:21 PM by Wile E Coyote »
...it's not over until I say it's over

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2013, 06:42:01 PM »
I'm convinced thanks to the screenshot that this was not premeditated from Day 1, but what about Day 2?  Obviously the parties in question realized they were based at the same airport, yet Dan went ahead and built up an airline with 200+ slots and $2+ billion CV and then BK'd.  The facts remain that Dan dumped slots at a predetermined time to an alliance mate.  On top of this, he joined DOTM late and HQ'd at LHR when there were zero slots available, which ironically has one of the Elite managers established at LHR already.  On top of this, the Elite manager in question is #2 in slot ownership--not #1--and heaven forbid Elite members have an ego.  Considering all of the evidence, is it not far fetched to assume Dan was acting as an agent to acquire slots for the alliance.  In fact, claiming otherwise is just insulting our intelligence.

The argument seems to be it wasn't against the rules.  Guess what?  There is nowhere in the rules that says using SQL injection to give yourself slots/money/aircraft is against the rules either, yet I'm sure sami would be bringing down the hammer on those who used it to their advantage.  We can turn this thread into an argument about whether morality is universal or relative, but any objective person from the outside looking in can see what has precipitated is clearly wrong.

There are plenty of Elite members here defending the flag and claiming they are always targeted by other players for wrongdoing etc.  The bottom line is in life, everyone has a reputation.  With all of the coincidences that have added up, Elite doesn't have the best reputation.  They can complain they are guilty until proven innocent all of the time, but that is what happens when your reputation precedes you.  It is apparent from this thread that the definition of an alliance being "a group of airlines working in loose cooperation" has turned into a group of airlines colluding against other players to gain at a competitive advantage at any cost.

I am not sami, but if I were him and all the facts check out, I would be imposing penalties.  Issuing a fine to PacAir would be moot unless his account balance was dropped to $0 due to the fact he can print money at LHR.  I would drop his CI to 0, which would hurt more than a cash fine (it would be interesting to drop it to -100 and see if he survives though--not sure if anyone has ever recovered from -100).  I'd also dock Elite a bunch of points on the variable alliance score and rating as it is an alliance issue and all they seem to care about is "winning".  It would also send a strong message to other current and future alliances that collusion isn't going to be tolerated and if you get caught, the consequences are significant.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 06:45:24 PM by LemonButt »

Offline SAC

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2013, 06:50:04 PM »
Please name me an instance of Elite being guilty of any mis-doing, or rule break please Lemonbutt ?  Our reputation is of wanting to win, and winning...that is what people don't like.  People play for different reasons, but Elite makes no secret of its aspirations to be successful.

...it's not over until I say it's over

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2013, 06:55:55 PM »
Please name me an instance of Elite being guilty of any mis-doing, or rule break please Lemonbutt ?  Our reputation is of wanting to win, and winning...that is what people don't like.  People play for different reasons, but Elite makes no secret of its aspirations to be successful.

I am not saying they are guilty of any wrongdoing.  I am saying there are a lot of coincidences adding up of alleged wrongdoing and unfair play that have occurred in the past, which is why it is unfortunate that when things like this happen that they are guilty until proven innocent.  There is nothing wrong with wanting to win, but it has clearly gotten out of hand where the ends justify the means.

Offline Infinity

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2013, 07:24:55 PM »
It is not. I have asked you time and again to stop your baseless slandering based on assumptions that have absolutely no proper foundation, you are just windbagging the same phrase over and again ('don't insult our intelligence' - have to ask, which intelligence is that supposed to be if you are jumping to all the wrong conclusions?).

I am really tired of this. We have offered all the evidence we have that this was not organized, what else do you want to hear? The only people who can tell the truth are Don and Dan, Don has spoken through us here and you did not believe us, I doubt you will believe Dan should he make a statement here.

I will just say this for now: Everyone who knows Dan and has ever seen him play knows the following things about him:

1) He is (almost) always starting in LHR. We expected him not to because he did not show any interest in our base planning, as he always had before, and he was in MAD in the game before. In all other games, he had started in LHR.
2) He is always running an all or nothing strategy. If he does not manage to build a mega airline or at least emerge as the dominant player in his base, he quits, because that is not what he wants from the game. In this case, he did not emerge as the dominant player, so everyone who has ever seen him play could assume that he would throw the towel sooner or later.
3) Yes, when Dan prepared to shut down he notified us. That's what friends do. Period. If your friends or alliance mates don't do that for you, I pity you. That's not my idea of a team then. I do not see anything wrong about telling us and I don't feel that we broke any rule or played unfairly here for that matter. AT ALL.

This is Gods Truth about what happened. If you don't believe it - that's truly sad, because it shows that you are always expecting the worst from others.
Elite screws up organizing their members properly? Wow, that really must be some weirdly evil genius masterplan to screw other players. Please. Thank you for putting so much faith in our organization, but this is still only a hobby for all of us after all.

I would also like to add that Rickys source here was a spy within our ranks. That's right, some disgusting scumbag maliciously blabbed confidential internal communications to an outsider. THAT is a scandal. What you are doing here is just blowing up a perfectly normal procedure that every alliance does.
I personally have, multiple times now, written PMs to competitors that I knew were going to quit to give me an advance notice. I don't feel that I did any wrong there, and it is really no different to what Don and Dan did here, except that they knew each other.

To summarize: Yes, we knew Dan would quit and we knew when. No, we did not set this up in the long term, and we certainly didn't position Dan in LHR to do this.

We are not cheaters, we just play the game as a team, and when the teamplay goes wrong we try to repair the damage. That is what every other alliance does, that's partly what the alliance concept is about.

'Slot swaps', if you will call it so, have happened before and have never been blown up like this in the past.

I am disgusted by the rush to judgement and jumping to conclusions that happened here. We are all supposed to be adults, I am sure this can be handled in a much more grown up manner than pointing the finger without knowing anything about the actual issue.

That is my take on it. You are free to rip it apart now.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2013, 07:53:01 PM »
I apologize for calling a spade a spade.  The facts are the slot dumping happened and Dan previously joined DOTM with what appears to be the same MO.  I can suspend my disbelief the first time, but your expecting me to believe a player of DanDantes' caliber joined DOTM late in the game and based at LHR where an Elite alliance manager is based and #2 in slots when LHR has zero slots available and his intentions weren't to dump slots?  You said it yourself--he always bases at LHR.  He knows damn well to check if there are any slots available before starting an airline there when joining late in the game.  Isolated incidents like these are becoming not so isolated, which is why we are where we are today.

Offline Kadachiman

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2013, 09:33:53 PM »
Does anyone really expect an Alliance (any Alliance) to make an admission of cheating?

You can post pros and cons as much as you like but it wont amount to anything, it is best to leave it up to the Administrators to sort it out as they have access to the actual data required to make an informed judgement.

My hope is that 'IF' an Alliance or members are found guilty of cheating, then the penalty is severe enough to act as a deterrent unlike a previous Gameworld where the penalty was so light that the 'cheats' still went on to win the Scenario.

Offline Infinity

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2013, 10:35:30 PM »
Does anyone really expect an Alliance (any Alliance) to make an admission of cheating?

There is nothing to admit. The fact that you will probably not see any severe punishment from Sami should be enough to ward off your stupid comments, but I am pretty sure you will find some fantastic way to claim we bribed Sami or something else inappropriate.

This said, I will drop this topic. The truth has been told, everything that differs from my clarifying post in this thread is a blatant lie and not worth the bytes it takes to store on the server.

Offline Andriy

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2013, 10:58:52 PM »

My hope is that 'IF' an Alliance or members are found guilty of cheating, then the penalty is severe enough to act as a deterrent unlike a previous Gameworld where the penalty was so light that the 'cheats' still went on to win the Scenario.

The punishment is already there:)
Cheating in an online game - how pathetic one should be to do that...
If you have achieved something in your life, you would never do anything like that. By cheating in a game one only shows to the world that winning by whatever means is the only achievement you can have - and thats really sad. Guys - get a life, its a game... alliances, spokesmen, false pride, should not this be fun rather than fighting?
And writing pages of explanation also tells something about courage (or lack of it...)

Offline [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2013, 11:31:20 PM »
Going around 400 slots down out of the blue, most sure be some kind of punishment.

rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2013, 12:06:28 AM »
At last we have had an admission from this alliance:

To summarize: Yes, we knew Dan would quit and we knew when. No, we did not set this up in the long term, and we certainly didn't position Dan in LHR to do this.

An admission that Dan a member of Elite will pass all of his 222 slots to PacAir at a specific given time, and close down his airline that is worth 2.5 billion.

If this kind of thing is permitted and everyone thinks this is acceptable there is not a lot of point in trying to ever compete with Elite, and I can honestly now see why they always win.

The bottom line is your strategy has been exposed and you have now been shown in the true light with egg on your face, for the cheats, oh sorry a little strong as no rules apparently broken, lets call it rule manipulators (to ensure you win).

So here is how it goes, anyone who wants to create an airline in LHR let me know, you bankrupt your airline this time and I will owe you one if you give me the slots.  Team play is it or taking the p*** out of everyone who plays fairly.....you decide.

It's not just a small deal either 222 slots simply gifted to the strong member is an absolute liberty, god forbid anyone that speak up against the mighty "strategists" Elite.  You play the game so well guys well done for your amazing 10 victories in a row, it's just a shame for you that everyone now knows how you do it thanks to in your own words "a disgusting scumbag maliciously blabbed confidential internal communications to an outsider"

The real scandal is why did an airline go bankrupt when it was worth 2.5 billion, it's a merger and I was not aware mergers were permitted.


rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2013, 12:36:16 AM »
In fact thinking about it, PacAir is such a good player with excellent strategy, let me know what time he is on and I will start closing my routes so he can have my slots as I am going to leave this world due to previous events.

I will await new revised slot rules in a new world, and look forward to being allowed to compete on a level playing field.

PacAir what price would you like to buy my planes off me I am prepared to go as low as $1000 per plane?

I will start putting them on the market for you sir, and I doff my cap to you!

Once the stock is sold off and the slots gone, I will retire.

Don't co-ordinate in the forum though lets keep it hush hush so he gets all the slots.  ;)

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Dan Dantes
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2013, 12:37:03 AM »
Ok, now that this is behind me, I will reply.

First off, Dan chose to play from LHR for one reason. He wanted to beat me. We had NO communication from him prior to the start of MT9 so I was quite surprised to see him show up on day one. A message was sent to Dan to clarify his intentions for MT9 and the reply was that he wanted to play from his home airport and, most of all, he wanted a crack at PacAir. From the beginning, his goal was to defeat me. Two weeks in, he was well on his way as I was trailing far behind, but then my RI and CI began to rise and the cash started pouring in. From that point on, I was able to afford both slots and aircraft to fly those slots and I ran away with the slot lead. About a week ago, Dan contacted me to congratulate me on a game well played and told me he would be bowing out and wanted me to have his slots. A time was set up, Dan declared bankruptcy, and I proceeded to buy the slots.

You can call this whatever you want. I have witnessed similar scenarios unfold in several different game worlds, including DOTM6 where British Air Transport somehow gobbled up ~800 slots in under 15 minutes. No one went crying to the administration. I saw a HQ carrier BK a few games ago only to see an alliance mate open a base and eat up over 1000 slots in a half hour. No one went crying to administration. There are other instances, but the point is made.

Sami called it unethical and ordered ~70% of the slots to be divested. I have now let 148 slots go (from 4063 to 3915), of which 78 went to Fly Europa, 6 to Canada Airways, ~14 to Test 5, at least 7 to Talbot Airlines, and the rest to airlines not listed on the slot pie chart. The slots were released over the course of about 3 hours (on breaks at work) and some still remain, although none are full sets.

While I do not agree this was unethical, illegal, or in any way "cheating," I can see why some were upset and I have done my penance without argument. I will move forward and I will play in the same manner I have always played. I will be aggressive in my pursuit of more slots in London, and I will continue to do so within the rules of the game AS I ALWAYS HAVE.

To all those who have tried to drag my name through the dirt, you are all scum. May I recommend spending a lot more time playing your game and a little less time playing judge, jury, and executioner? You have absolutely -no- idea what you are talking about. I am quite literally about the most honest player you will find playing the game today. I know most of your minds are made up about me and that is fine. You are entitled to your opinion. You showed your nonexistent level of class in all of your replies, most notably the infamous LemonButt.

Oh, and Ricky? Sooooo sorry that you -still- did not get any slots, even though you were on line the -whole time- I was sending them back. Sucks to be you, my friend. Maybe the fourth time you report me for slot related issues you will be more successful?

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

 

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