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Author Topic: [ok] Raise salary by $ amount  (Read 1064 times)

Offline travelair

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[ok] Raise salary by $ amount
« on: November 14, 2013, 12:18:17 PM »
Hi, I looked through the forum and didnt see it mentioned, yet for someone who has multiple bases its really important...

Currently you can only increase the wage by % value. But sometimes its needed to put a few more $ on certain departments to get to the desired morale level. Now, in order to do that you need to click every dep. in every base and put in the new amount by hand.  In my case thats 51 fields, you might imagine how long that takes  :-\

So please is it possible to add such a feature in like the very short-term, or is there an game update neccessary? An option to "raise salary by" x $ amount, seems like a pretty simple change, which would save ppl who need to adjust manually a lot of time!

Any feedback on this? Thanks
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 06:21:05 PM by sami »

Offline Infinity

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2013, 12:47:21 PM »
You are probably the only person who does it that way, I don't see any need for that feature.

Offline travelair

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2013, 01:15:42 PM »
It didnt take long for somebody to pick apart this idea.  ::)

I dont think you are able judge what 450+ other players are doing. If you dont use it, fine. Its a simple change, that would save ppl alot of time, whoever "does it that way". Giving ppl more options on how to play should always be desirable no?

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2013, 05:08:03 PM »
fight fight!

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2013, 05:58:02 PM »
Do know you can always type in the salaries, if you want to go with salary level different from suggested?

Also, salaries are different.  Raising all categories by a fixed dollar amount gives different percentage raises to each group.  I don't really see this making a lot of sense.

Offline travelair

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 07:04:55 PM »
Just put in the option, next to the %-increase (1,2, etc) to increase the amount by ___ $ . It cant be that difficult to implement nor understand?

If you manually adjust the wages (yes some ppl do that, why is it even possible in the game?) and you have more than 1 base, in my case 3, it is impossible to change 51 fields, 5-10 times if you raise it in small increments.

If you dont need it, thats perfectly fine, but why come here to say it doesnt make sense or it isnt needed? Its just critique and not even productive one.


Offline Infinity

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2013, 09:26:46 PM »
Well, it doesn't make sense, so why can't we say it? If you raise all salaries by 100 Dollars, the Very Large Pilot groups salary will rise by 0.8%, while the Ground Handling groups salary rises by 4%. It is just not logical to do that at all.
So if you really want that feature, I suggest you explain why it makes sense, instead of complaining we say it doesn't.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2013, 09:30:10 PM »
Well, it doesn't make sense, so why can't we say it? If you raise all salaries by 100 Dollars, the Very Large Pilot groups salary will rise by 0.8%, while the Ground Handling groups salary rises by 4%. It is just not logical to do that at all.
So if you really want that feature, I suggest you explain why it makes sense, instead of complaining we say it doesn't.

I have to agree.  Referencing the OP, isn't the desired morale level 100, which would be the suggested wage?  This seems like a really arbitrary thing--to increase salaries by x dollars.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2013, 09:55:16 PM »
Isn't the actual feature you want a button that says 'continue raising salaries until morale reaches 100, and don't go $1 higher?'.

As others have pointed out, that's not a cost-effective way to do things. Morale will reach 100 all by itself, simply through normal recruitment. Adding a feature like this, adding another button to clutter the screen when you already have the option of % increases, just for the way one person does things, doesn't make a lot of sense. If you want to keep raising wages, overpay staff for the entire future of your airline, just in order to have a morale of 100 earlier, then fair enough. But what's the actual problem with doing that 1% at a time, or 5% at a time, or 10% at a time, why does it have to be done $100 at a time, $1000 at a time instead?

Offline travelair

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2013, 10:45:41 PM »
Its not a button, if you click on raise salery, there is an option to raise it by % value. All I am suggesting is an option to raise it by x amount of $. Where is that cluttering?

I have explained that if you raise the wage by %, its sometimes not enough to reach the desired morale. Then I raise it by $, please tell me how I am supposed to do that with 51 fields to change for any $ increased? I have 3 bases and im not alone in this respect...and please leave it to me and others to judge if its cost effective or not, can we al least agree on that?

I cant believe the attitude in here. It doesnt affect you negatively in any way, yet it would benefit ppl who adjust wages manually alot. Still all you do is trying to dismantle my postand ridicule me. No word from Sami as if my arguments would shake the game to it core.

Thanks guys, this forum really is a friendly environment  :-\
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 10:48:06 PM by travelair »

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 11:03:39 PM »
I'm not trying to ridicule you, I'm giving feedback on your idea, just as you asked for. And also on the gameplay that would use the idea.

If it's not enough to reach the desired morale, why not just raise it by another 1%?

If you're trying to work out the individual $ amounts to raise 51 different groups to get the desired morale for each one, how is that easier than just typing in the desired salary in each of the 51 different fields to start with? I genuinely don't understand. What benefit is there to 'increase all wages by $100' that isn't also offered by 'increase all wages by 1%'?

I don't see the point of adding complications to systems if there isn't a benefit. Even if it won't affect me, I won't use it & won't care because I already do things differently, the more over-complicated things get, the harder it is for new players to figure things out. Adding shortcuts for more & different micromanagement, especially stuff that is already achievable, especially for stuff that makes your airline less profitable, is something I don't see the point of. It makes the system harder to learn. It makes it more likely new players will make avoidable mistakes, it makes it more likely that new players will get frustrated & leave because their airlines don't make profits.

Quote
Then I raise it by $, please tell me how I am supposed to do that with 51 fields to change for any $ increased? I have 3 bases and im not alone in this respect...

Yes, you can just type in a new number 51 times. Might take 10 minutes at most. Most of my airlines have 3 bases, too. Not once have I had a problem with adjusting wages becoming tedious. It's always taken a maximum of 30 seconds, no more than once a game year.

Quote
it would benefit ppl who adjust wages manually alot.

Right. But how many of those people are there? What is the point to manually adjusting wages a lot? I'd be very surprised to learn that more than 1% of players manually adjusted wages, ever. Other than changing CEO salary to 0 or maximum, and clicking 'set this/all categories to default' when a raise request arrives, I'd be surprised to see people adjusting salaries in any way.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 12:59:53 AM »
Its not a button, if you click on raise salery, there is an option to raise it by % value. All I am suggesting is an option to raise it by x amount of $. Where is that cluttering?

I have explained that if you raise the wage by %, its sometimes not enough to reach the desired morale. Then I raise it by $, please tell me how I am supposed to do that with 51 fields to change for any $ increased? I have 3 bases and im not alone in this respect...and please leave it to me and others to judge if its cost effective or not, can we al least agree on that?

I cant believe the attitude in here. It doesnt affect you negatively in any way, yet it would benefit ppl who adjust wages manually alot. Still all you do is trying to dismantle my postand ridicule me. No word from Sami as if my arguments would shake the game to it core.

Thanks guys, this forum really is a friendly environment  :-\

I think you may be confused.  Achieving 100 morale isn't an event, but a process.  If you pay the suggested wages, morale will reach 100 over time.  It sounds like what you are trying to do is go from 70, for example, to 100 instantly by overpaying salaries.

BD

  • Former member
Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 05:27:05 AM »
Hi, I looked through the forum and didnt see it mentioned, yet for someone who has multiple bases its really important...

Currently you can only increase the wage by % value. But sometimes its needed to put a few more $ on certain departments to get to the desired morale level. Now, in order to do that you need to click every dep. in every base and put in the new amount by hand.  In my case thats 51 fields, you might imagine how long that takes  :-\

So please is it possible to add such a feature in like the very short-term, or is there an game update neccessary? An option to "raise salary by" x $ amount, seems like a pretty simple change, which would save ppl who need to adjust manually a lot of time!

Any feedback on this? Thanks
;D I am scratching my head on this one, partly because there are two different, conflicting things suggested here:

1.  "sometimes its needed to put a few more $ on certain departments to get to the desired morale level"
2.  "In my case thats 51 fields" - i.e. all 17 fields in all three bases.

I see that it can be time consuming to edit 51 fields, but what is important is the relative (%) increase (to which morale moves in tandem) vs same specific dollar amount applied across each of those fields/departments.  A bulk change by % makes the relative change rather quickly.

I see where tweaking certain departments might be desirable, but now we must be talking only a few.  Not sure this is something that needs frequent increases to (I'm ignoring decreases, as that would hurt morale, so we only ever adjust upwards).  If not on auto, the message we get is once every game year, which is about once a week IRL.  This does not seem like a burden.


It might be interesting, though, if we could set a dollar amount for each selected department as a constant uplift above the "set suggested wage" which gets automatically applied when bulk changing to the "suggested wage". 

Is this what you are looking for?

What I don't know, as a relative noob, is if that provides a strategic advantage (having certain departments higher than "suggested", or more frequent increases) - if so, I've been missing out.   :o

Have you found there to be?


Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 05:39:28 AM »
I think Lemon Butt probably explained the misunderstanding.  The morale increase from one time boost is wrong way to go about things,  it is the long term, sustained process that counts.  If the pay is high enough that the staff is not asking for raises, the morale  does not go down, and most likely automatically goes up once per month, about 4-5 percent.

If the staff is asking for raises, category is in "orange" no amount of tweaking will help the morale stop going down, periodically until you meet the demand, and the staff category is no longer orange...

The one time boost is very bad for another reason: you may give morale a one time boost, but may end up overpaying your staff as a result, if you go over (above) the suggested salary.  Undoing that overpayment (meaning a pay cut) causes CI to go down (as well as morale).

Offline travelair

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 06:52:40 AM »
So adjusted the wages by %, and this came out: Now in order to get morale up I have to edit 13 fields. Lucky me, normally its 17 fields. But since some need more some less, on avg. 4-5 increases thats 52 fields. 52 clicks on every department, in every city, then type in a 4 or 5 digit number.

Please, dont tell me how to play this game, what the right and wrong way to do things, please. Just accept that others play differently. Zero tolerance is what you get in AWS by some of its "vocal" members...

It takes alot more than 30s. I have been doing it since day 1 in AWS +4years ago, believe me. Now If had the option to increae wages in all bases (like%) by x amount $ with one click, it would save us and its more than 1% alot of precious time.

It doesnt interfere with how you prefer to do it in the slightest way. It gives players who prefer manual settings an valuable tool to save a lot of time.

By adjusting wages "by hand" I am able to save a few $ mil. a month, and should remain my choice to do so.

So, then tell my why this "feature" has created such a storm protest, if you dont intend an using it anyway. There s no advantage, other than saving a few mil.$ a month, but if you dont  need that fine. All im asking for is to give the player who prefer "hand labor" to tools that are neccessary to do so efficiently.

Again, what is so difficult to understand here - opposition to any suggestion, as long as travelair is involved, gets old and tired after a while? Im sure you wont agree on that either  ::)






« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 06:59:58 AM by travelair »

Offline travelair

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2013, 07:12:22 AM »
I don't see the point of adding complications to systems if there isn't a benefit. Even if it won't affect me, I won't use it & won't care because I already do things differently, the more over-complicated things get, the harder it is for new players to figure things out. Adding shortcuts for more & different micromanagement, especially stuff that is already achievable, especially for stuff that makes your airline less profitable, is something I don't see the point of. It makes the system harder to learn. It makes it more likely new players will make avoidable mistakes, it makes it more likely that new players will get frustrated & leave because their airlines don't make profits.

Yes, you can just type in a new number 51 times. Might take 10 minutes at most. Most of my airlines have 3 bases, too. Not once have I had a problem with adjusting wages becoming tedious. It's always taken a maximum of 30 seconds, no more than once a game year.


No comment, really, Im out of words for the top paragraph... it makes the sytem harder to learn if you have the option to raise wages by $, seriously ??? Cause new airlines to not make a profit and get frustrated? Ive seen many questionable replies here on a number of topics, but you take home the prize!
Thanks for your "feedback"  ::)

Oh I forgot, I asked Sami to post a poll, "Do you adjust your wages" 1 - use the auto setting, 2 - I adjust manually sometime, 3 - I always adjust by hand

But, of course, I got no reply nor has he got the time to give feedback here... ;)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 07:27:29 AM by travelair »

Offline Infinity

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2013, 09:01:05 AM »
Have you tried 'set suggested wages'? It basically does what you are asking for.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2013, 11:04:52 AM »
By adjusting wages "by hand" I am able to save a few $ mil. a month, and should remain my choice to do so.

No, you do not save anything. You are paying a lot extra, you'd just pay a little bit more extra without the hand adjustment. You're right, if you want to pay millions extra for staff, that is and continues to remain your choice. But putting in an option that can do nothing but hurt airlines, I continue to not see the point. In fact, I also don't see the point to 'raise all salaries by x%', because that can also do nothing but hurt airlines, apart from very specific cases.

And again, how would it be of any benefit when it comes to your screenie? You have 3 categories of staff you don't want to raise. 'Raise all by 1%' doesn't work for you, precisely because you don't want to raise those three groups. So how does 'raise all by $1000' do anything different?

Quote
It takes alot more than 30s. I have been doing it since day 1 in AWS +4years ago, believe me.

Yes, I believe you. It takes more than 30 seconds to manually assign wasted money to different staff in different amounts. But it never takes any more than 30 seconds to give raises to those requesting them, or to set all wages to default & then readjust CEO salary. And that will get you to 100 morale across the board without any problems at all.

Quote
It gives players who prefer manual settings an valuable tool to save a lot of time.

Yes, but is there anybody other than you who continually raises wages until morale hits 100, instead of just letting morale climb by itself? I've never heard anyone but you even suggest it, and if anyone did ask whether it was a good idea, they'd get a heap of advice to say no it's not, it'll just cost you a lot of money for zero beneift. As you are.

Everyone else who prefers manual settings, which includes most of the regular players I know of, can do their manual changes in under 30 seconds with the current system.

So to summarise, you have a unique way of doing things with wages. You want a new button, that doesn't actually offer any improvement over the current button, that can only be used to hurt your airline, just to make it easier for you to waste money in your unique way. And then when people say it's a bad idea/already doable/they don't see the point, you think it's because they all have some personal vendetta against anything you come up with.

BD

  • Former member
Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2013, 03:11:19 PM »
I think Lemon Butt probably explained the misunderstanding.  The morale increase from one time boost is wrong way to go about things,  it is the long term, sustained process that counts.  If the pay is high enough that the staff is not asking for raises, the morale  does not go down, and most likely automatically goes up once per month, about 4-5 percent.

If the staff is asking for raises, category is in "orange" no amount of tweaking will help the morale stop going down, periodically until you meet the demand, and the staff category is no longer orange...

The one time boost is very bad for another reason: you may give morale a one time boost, but may end up overpaying your staff as a result, if you go over (above) the suggested salary.  Undoing that overpayment (meaning a pay cut) causes CI to go down (as well as morale).
Thanks.  That is what I was assuming, but I figure I'd give the OP a chance to explain the rationale on why this method of raising wages is "superior" and why it requires intense management.  Just runs counter to my experience.  

We noobs can bring a fresh perspective, but we have to be clear and convincing of the rationale/benefits.  At the end of the day, we are asking Sami to divert very limited resources from a long backlog of requests players are already clamoring for.  If we cannot convince at least a couple of players (ideally, veteran players), and are the lone voice supporting an idea, it is doubtful Sami could be convinced.  

It is also worth pondering the feedback and not get particularly invested in our own ideas (after all, we are humble noobs  ;D ).

brique

  • Former member
Re: Raise salary by $ amount
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2013, 03:25:50 PM »
Humble noobs can have sane, sensible, workable ideas, same as the most hardened pro : sometimes, as they are fresh to the game and seeing things 'brand new' without any history as to why it is the way it is now, they will spot a flaw that the old pros learnt to work around long ago and never consider much now.

That said, this aint one of them : the major flaw in the suggestion is that it does nothing that isnt already being done, just adds more cost and creates work. Leave wages on auto and never look again : six months in, 100% across the board and happy workers : that can push wages a little higher than ideal, so, if you want, set wages to manual : once a week, you'll get a mail : set the angry workers to the new suggested wage = happy workers and morale at 100% where it will stay unless you upset the comrades!

If you are really micro-managing severe OCD type like me (in recovery : I didn't re-arrange all the cans in the larder today : I may not re-arrange them tomorrow : one can at a time... ) : then you can go into personnel every hour and tweak here and there : it wont do much but if it keeps you out of the larder, it may serve a purpose.

Go in peace...


 

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