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Author Topic: Beloved B757's dead  (Read 2426 times)

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2013, 01:24:58 AM »
"If you're based at LHR, you shouldn't be flying to JFK 8x daily with a B757--you should be flying 2x daily with a B777 or A380. "

REALLY??? I'd have to disagree...


It's just a way he said to emphasize flying a more comfortable WB is much better than frequency NB

altmants

  • Former member
Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2013, 10:02:29 PM »
in my opinion, the game should get rid of the whole frequency issue and move towards an aircraft based preference system.

Even on domestic flights, if someone is doing 3x JFK to LAX on a B777, passengers should prefer the B777 over an A320 doing JFK to LAX 6x a day.


The game stresses frequency the most. We should stop making that the number 1 factor, than you will see larger more comfortable planes flying routes. Transcon B777 exist in the real world but in AWS, its stupid to do that because Its Better to win the frequency battle and use narrow body aircraft. We need to move away from that IMO.

Offline SAC

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2013, 10:06:19 PM »
If we move towards real world the a 757 would become preferable over 10 abreast 17" seats on today's wide bodied a/c in Y class !   The whole WD is better than NB is nonsense the way today's airlines configure their WD a/c  :-\
...it's not over until I say it's over

Offline Captim

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2013, 10:10:50 PM »
Ticket price is all in today's world... what you fly to make it competitive is largely irrelavent.

Comfort battles only really exist in C and F classes...


Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2013, 10:20:13 PM »
I have to admit, I am not a fan of 10 abreast wide bodies either.  You have 40% probability of being stuck in the middle.  On narrowbodies, you have slightly lower probability - 2 in 10 or 33% probability.

I would agree that frequency still plays too much of a role.  Ticket prices should play more of the role.  It plays some role in filling up your planes more, but less of a role of subtracting pax fro the other guy.

There is some brand preference reinforced by frequent flyer programs, but the price is still the most significant factor in real life.

Offline Captim

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2013, 11:23:34 PM »
Aside from LED seat back screens in economy, airlines spend fortunes enticing the 'upper classes' with varieties of seats, beds, and service.

If the a/c you fly is large enough to accomodate such features, whilst filling a good bulk of 'cattle class' you're golden.

I see the game developing more in this range perhaps...?

Offline SAC

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2013, 11:38:53 PM »
Totally agree. I prefer flying Y from MAN to the US 6 abreast on a 757, over flying from LHR on a 10 abreast 777. In Y class the 757 is more comfortable without doubt. The WB is more comfortable is a complete myth in Y.  The massive difference for the airlines is two fold with WB's, upfront and cargo capacity, for which the WB's wins hands down, but neither of these are properly incorporated into AWS, in the case of cargo not at all.  

As Jumbo correctly says most people could not careless if a WB or NB a/c, if there is 1 or 10 flights per day...price is king !  Most people would not know the difference between a 757 and a 767 anyway, they will just get on the cheapest, and if they are in Y then there will be no difference in comfort between the two.

If Ryanair started LHR - JFK with a 738MAX's, and offered 10 tickets then BA/AA/VS etc in Y class would have a LF of virtually zero. Comfort matters zero, price matters lots. BA/AA/VS etc would still probably make money though through cargo and premium passengers.
...it's not over until I say it's over

Offline Captim

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2013, 11:47:03 PM »
The Scandivanians have got there before the Irish...! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2464653/Budget-airline-Norwegian-offers-150-flights-New-York-Gatwick.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Decent scale + economy, same profile that made Ryanair and many others...

Offline tcrlaf

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2013, 06:20:21 PM »
in my opinion, the game should get rid of the whole frequency issue and move towards an aircraft based preference system.

Even on domestic flights, if someone is doing 3x JFK to LAX on a B777, passengers should prefer the B777 over an A320 doing JFK to LAX 6x a day.


The game stresses frequency the most. We should stop making that the number 1 factor, than you will see larger more comfortable planes flying routes. Transcon B777 exist in the real world but in AWS, its stupid to do that because Its Better to win the frequency battle and use narrow body aircraft. We need to move away from that IMO.

Unfortunately, in the real world, FREQUENCY WINS EVERY SINGLE TIME. Passengers prefer the choice of multiple flights, even if it is on smaller aircraft, and are even willing to pay a premium for that choice. Price is only part of the equation. In the words of a major airline yield management guy I know, It's a hell of a lot easier to find 40 people willing to pay $1,000, than 500 people willing to pay $80.

Offline Superbenj

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2013, 06:30:56 PM »
The Scandivanians have got there before the Irish...! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2464653/Budget-airline-Norwegian-offers-150-flights-New-York-Gatwick.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Decent scale + economy, same profile that made Ryanair and many others...

It will be interesting to see how they get on with this, a tight fleet means that any irrops could lead to disastrous PR and customer relations. The sparse schedule as well may lead to many seeking more convenient alternatives too.

The price difference is large though, using one flight (LAX next Summer) as a sample , the price is circa 230 (30%) cheaper than legacy carriers offering a direct LHR-LAX return, so heads will certainly be turned.

Offline meiru

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2013, 10:51:06 PM »
The main problem today is, that there are too many idiots. They are buying every crap, if it's cheap and sometimes even if it's not cheap, but looks cheap. And they even buy it, if they know that it's crap... the problem is, that they can't do even the easiest calculation. I personally would never pay 100$ if they're for crap, when I can get a good product for about 130$. If I don't get a usefull product for the 100$, I've lost 100$... if (and that's very unlikely) the cheap product is good, the worst that happens is, that I "lost" 30$... but, that's not happening often... so, they buy the 100$ crap, it fails, they have to buy the next one... and so on... and in the end, they had to pay 300$ and still don't have anything usefull, simply because they're always buying crap... but -> calculation -> they end up with solutions like this "3 * 100$ < 130$"
But when did you ever see a commercial, that wasn't talking about the price? Nobody want's quality (and I don't talk about "high" quality, but about a product, that doesn't fall appart when it arrives) ... that's the same for airline tickets... cheap cheap cheap... and the industry delivers what they want...
I found out, that flying nb's over a too long distance is not really profitable (that's really rocket science... I had to do a multiplication AND a division!!!)... but, everyone is destroying the market with it (and the environment also by the way), simply because the idiots (the customers) like to chose from 7 flights instead of 3...
... so, what did Einstein say once? ... "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

tm07x

  • Former member
Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2013, 04:02:40 AM »
The rule of thumb is to not fly an aircraft longer than 10x the pax count, so a 50 seater you wouldn't want to fly more than 500nm, a 100 seater 1000nm, etc.  That would put the B757 maxing out around 2000nm, which interestingly enough is the baseline range for the -200 variant.  Once you start flying 2000nm+ it is the law of diminishing returns due to fuel burn vs revenue.  

Thought it was fuel cost per seat mile and revenue per seat mile that mattered. Not what the bird burns pr hour on any given mission or how long the mission is.
If the lease cost and fuel burn is low enough, a 100 seater is just as economical as a larger plane. Isn't it?
(Unless you meant that the 2000+nm game is a whole different ball game all together.)

I might be forgetting something here but I don't see how acquiring a 762/763 (or equivalent) for a 2000nm mission makes any sense when comparing it to a 732 or 733. 3-4 times the purchase/lease cost + higher fuel burn. Is the offset in staff cost, mx, etc so high that it actually makes sense to operate a larger AC?

Do I add an AC type to cover the routes with high pax demand? Or do I stick to my fleet and just increase the frequency?
Doesn't seem like frequency is the same king as it used to be tho.

Offline meiru

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Re: Beloved B757's dead
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2013, 09:28:34 PM »
I don't know yet, if it's a good idea to do this in the game... but flying large aircrafts on small routes seem to be a good thing in real life. Otherwise I couldn't explain, why THY is flying the Ankara-Vienna route with 773.
But for the game, it still has to be proved... I once did fly some routes (middle distances) with MD80 and MD11, because there was a big demand... and, the 11s didn't that bad... but I didn't calculate all costs completely... maybe I would have to do try this again in the future.

 

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