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Author Topic: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER  (Read 2218 times)

Offline ottovhaff

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No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« on: October 10, 2013, 09:46:03 AM »
I get that the idea is to prevent some companies from making too much money too quick, and also that slots become available progressively, but really I think it makes no sense that We have to sit around for most of the game and wait up for slots, or that We have to schedule poorly our aircraft because there isn´t any slots for more, and then We cannot buy more planes even if We have cash available, because they cannot fly as there´s nowhere to go!! and ultimately companies cannot compete and people have to spend more time writting posts in the forum or stare at their bank statements!! There´s gotta be another way to slow down the race to riches!!! Lots of people eventually get bored with this patience over strategy kinda game, for that We have chess online!!!!! Just voicing my opinion!!! 

brique

  • Former member
Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2013, 10:12:38 AM »
many share your pain, but Sami is working on the problem, as the recent threads show : indeed, a set of changes has just been implemented, not to universal approval as they do seem to be fairly radical in immediate effect, but once the shock and awe wears off, it will be interesting to see what changes as a result.

Offline Infinity

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2013, 10:14:41 AM »
I will tell you what will change as a result. 7 equally large airlines in every airport peacefully coexisting, finally killing every competitive aspect in the game, as it is now impossible to outgrow anyone. This is called communism in real life.

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 10:28:19 AM »
I will tell you what will change as a result. 7 equally large airlines in every airport peacefully coexisting, finally killing every competitive aspect in the game, as it is now impossible to outgrow anyone. This is called communism in real life.

Absolutely.

Slots is part of the game and should stay like this. Prices increase already and slots become available in a limited number.
Why not limit the amount of new slots and airline can take instead of ridiculous prices...


brique

  • Former member
Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2013, 10:37:41 AM »
I will tell you what will change as a result. 7 equally large airlines in every airport peacefully coexisting, finally killing every competitive aspect in the game, as it is now impossible to outgrow anyone. This is called communism in real life.

Not really, still got all those nasty free-marketeers flying in from outside, who are not paying anything like the same slot fees to land there : just like the poor oppressed 7 airlines will be doing to the nasty free-marketeers bases : its a two-way street and both sides will have the same problem at home, expensive slots if they want to dominate all the routes available to them immediately (and that's key to the issue - the idea is to limit explosive growth, limit monopoly positions and allow competition). It becomes the managements choice as to where to apply their capital for the best return ; if they make wise choices, they will grow and dominate, if its poor choices, they wont and will go to the wall.

Hardly Communism.


Offline Infinity

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 10:43:56 AM »
It becomes the managements choice as to where to apply their capital for the best return ; if they make wise choices, they will grow and dominate, if its poor choices, they wont and will go to the wall.



And what if an otherwise good choice just turned into poor ones by this new 'feature'? I am very interested in your take on this. Ordering many planes was a very good thing to do previously, now in a single strike it has turned into one that will ultimately bankrupt me in the long run.

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2013, 10:55:23 AM »
Not only that.... Have 'production lines been changed as well? Less orders will result in some models been not available very soon as no one dares to order some.

Offline Sami

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2013, 10:57:28 AM »
Not only that.... Have 'production lines been changed as well?

No (how come..?)

loziobiz

  • Former member
Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 11:03:52 AM »
I will tell you what will change as a result. 7 equally large airlines in every airport peacefully coexisting, finally killing every competitive aspect in the game, as it is now impossible to outgrow anyone. This is called communism in real life.

Your vision of the game is called n***sm in real life. Not sure which is better.....

brique

  • Former member
Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 11:04:58 AM »
And what if an otherwise good choice just turned into poor ones by this new 'feature'? I am very interested in your take on this. Ordering many planes was a very good thing to do previously, now in a single strike it has turned into one that will ultimately bankrupt me in the long run.

It's a bummer, for sure : but what's your take on this : how many planes are sitting on tarmac not because they cant be scheduled but because they were bought to avoid taxes at year end? How many are sitting there waiting to be moved to a new base when it opens? How many are sitting there waiting to be re-fleeted wholesale to avoid commonality penalties? How many are sitting there waiting to be sold or leased? How many are sitting there waiting to take advantage of the next slot-drop and thus allow them all the new slot to be taken en-masse and scheduled within the game time limits?

I'd suggest in those circumstances nobody is really complaining about being made bankrupt by the (non-existent) parking fees.

Sorry, but yes, game tactics will have to change, but how is having a plane sitting parked waiting for the next slot-drop any different to having it sitting waiting for slot prices to ease?

Cant have it all ways: folk cant complain they cant fly into slot-locked airports but insist their domination of their own home airport slots is sacrosanct. Same way, you cant complain about un-scheduled aircraft cluttering up the runways when you buy 100's to avoid tax and, to a degree, lock up the production lines and prevent others buying those build slots. Back to the point about parked aircraft waiting for slot drops : how different is it now?


Offline Teadaze

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 11:11:20 AM »
It's a bummer, for sure : but what's your take on this : how many planes are sitting on tarmac not because they cant be scheduled but because they were bought to avoid taxes at year end? How many are sitting there waiting to be moved to a new base when it opens? How many are sitting there waiting to be re-fleeted wholesale to avoid commonality penalties? How many are sitting there waiting to be sold or leased? How many are sitting there waiting to take advantage of the next slot-drop and thus allow them all the new slot to be taken en-masse and scheduled within the game time limits?

yes, but not when all your plane are leased.. like right now ;) You need to predict the amount of plane you need when you open a new base, and chances are you try to keep a balance between having stock and not bankrupt. I have seen many airline bankrupt because they overextend and in the end have too much plane... just look at current JA, the techstop penality killed so many early DC8 model. Resulting into mass bankrupt when DOTM is announced as a long game world.

Quote
Sorry, but yes, game tactics will have to change, but how is having a plane sitting parked waiting for the next slot-drop any different to having it sitting waiting for slot prices to ease?

again same thing.. it is one thing when you buy, it is another when you lease.


Quote
Cant have it all ways: folk cant complain they cant fly into slot-locked airports but insist their domination of their own home airport slots is sacrosanct. Same way, you cant complain about un-scheduled aircraft cluttering up the runways when you buy 100's to avoid tax and, to a degree, lock up the production lines and prevent others buying those build slots. Back to the point about parked aircraft waiting for slot drops : how different is it now?

I joined last MT at 2013, I was able to fly into almost every single airport from DXB except when alliance rule conflict, or the name is LHR. CDG, AMS, SIN, every North america airport all dominated by 1 or 2 airline can be flown in without much issue.

I agree things need to be change, I don't fancy myself schedule too much time on aws to get an edge also. But a sudden change is not welcome.. just like you go to work by driving a car and all of a sudden your fuel cost jumped by 100%
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 11:16:25 AM by Aoitsuki »

Offline Infinity

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 11:21:17 AM »
Sorry, but yes, game tactics will have to change, but how is having a plane sitting parked waiting for the next slot-drop any different to having it sitting waiting for slot prices to ease?



Very simple. If I buy aircraft expecting to get the slots, that is a risk I am taking willingly. If I have to put them into disuse because of a change that was made after I had taken that risk, i.e. not being able to get the slots anymore due to prohibitive cost, then that is not tolerable. It's another story if it is that way from the start, but playing with the system midgame and turning strategic decisions into nuclear bombs, that's hardly fair.

Same way, you cant complain about un-scheduled aircraft cluttering up the runways when you buy 100's to avoid tax and, to a degree, lock up the production lines and prevent others buying those build slots. Back to the point about parked aircraft waiting for slot drops : how different is it now?



I don't know what this has to do with the slot change, but I will answer anyway. I never had unscheduled aircraft 'cluttering up runways'. In the previous game, I did indeed have over a thousand aircraft I could not use, but I made those available to all other players by putting them up on the leasing market for rates far lower than most other players or the AI brokers. So telling me I locked up the production lines preventing others to get aircraft is simply ridiculous. If anything I made it easier for other players to play the game.
You are not making a point here.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 11:25:05 AM by saftfrucht »

brique

  • Former member
Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 11:30:09 AM »
I dont see a real difference : ordering planes for potential future use is always a risk, no matter how you finance them ; lease, loan or from cash-flow : that remains the same whether you order them in the hope of grabbing the next slot-drop under the previous system or with a more gradual take-up under the new one to keep slot-costs down.

My view is, you'll have more chance of getting any slots at all as the high cost will prevent the early bird grabbing all the worms when they do drop ; true, if you are the usual early bird with your early-warning system of buddies running 24/7 checks for you, it does suck but hey, omelettes and eggs, and not many tears from me for their loss.

brique

  • Former member
Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 11:39:15 AM »


I don't know what this has to do with the slot change, but I will answer anyway. I never had unscheduled aircraft 'cluttering up runways'. In the previous game, I did indeed have over a thousand aircraft I could not use, but I made those available to all other players by putting them up on the leasing market for rates far lower than most other players or the AI brokers. So telling me I locked up the production lines preventing others to get aircraft is simply ridiculous. If anything I made it easier for other players to play the game.
You are not making a point here.

My point was that having aircraft sitting on the tarmac waiting is not some new change : there are many reasons for it, and all have their place : and they also have their downsides too. One is the cost if they are leased, but thats part of the calculation you make when you order them in the first place.

I do repeat : what is the difference between a plane (leased or otherwise) sitting waiting for slot-drops under the old system and a plane (leased or otherwise) sitting waiting for a slot drop under the new system?

None at all ; what does change is that grabbing all the slots when they do drop and quickly scheduling them onto the waiting planes is going to be a much more expensive business, even prohibitively so : thus it will happen less and more slots will be left for others to claim for their planes (leased or otherwise) sitting waiting on the tarmac for the next slot drop.

And that other person may be you, wanting to fly into another currently slot-locked airport : two way street, isnt it?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 11:42:56 AM by brique »

Offline Infinity

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2013, 12:07:02 PM »
I dont see a real difference : ordering planes for potential future use is always a risk, no matter how you finance them ; lease, loan or from cash-flow : that remains the same whether you order them in the hope of grabbing the next slot-drop under the previous system or with a more gradual take-up under the new one to keep slot-costs down.


Yea, it is really no difference between taking a risk that only you yourself can fail at or taking a risk on which's outcome you have no influence. You are right. I am sorry I was so dumb, how could I ever think that taking risk had anything to do with risk evaluation...

My view is, you'll have more chance of getting any slots at all as the high cost will prevent the early bird grabbing all the worms when they do drop ; true, if you are the usual early bird with your early-warning system of buddies running 24/7 checks for you, it does suck but hey, omelettes and eggs, and not many tears from me for their loss.

You really don't get it, do you? I am not complaining about a change made to the slot system, everyone knows it's crap. I am just complaining about the MANNER in which those changes were made. Unforewarned, immediate, midgame. And the system is still crap after the change. It is one thing to get your planning crossed by a revision that benefits the game, but getting it crossed by something just as dumb as the previous system is twice as annoying.

My point was [...]


No. You didn't have one. I told you before.

I do repeat : what is the difference between a plane (leased or otherwise) sitting waiting for slot-drops under the old system and a plane (leased or otherwise) sitting waiting for a slot drop under the new system?


It is wonderful you should say YOU repeat, because you obviously didn't get the point I made several times before already. The difference is that I made the decision to have them waiting in the old system WILLINGLY because there was the possibility I could use them all if I didn't personally fail at getting the slots, accepting there was a risk. With the new system, it is impossible to pick up enough slots anyhow, so no matter if I was willing to take that risk which was mandated unto me without having a choice, I couldn't use them all. It's actually very simple if you have a brain.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 12:15:21 PM by saftfrucht »

Offline [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2013, 12:13:25 PM »
I will tell you what will change as a result. 7 equally large airlines in every airport peacefully coexisting, finally killing every competitive aspect in the game, as it is now impossible to outgrow anyone. This is called communism in real life.

The game is only based on who sits most online, and see the slots first, and then just takes them all up. Thats a game breaker for most of the players in the game worlds. Most of people playing the game don't have time to sit online 24/7 just for looking for slots, they don't get because, other people slot hogs them all.

Offline [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2013, 12:15:02 PM »
Absolutely.

Slots is part of the game and should stay like this. Prices increase already and slots become available in a limited number.
Why not limit the amount of new slots and airline can take instead of ridiculous prices...

Stop mooning.  Putting the price up for slot hoggers, i an FINE short term solution.
The other thing surely takes much longer to make. So a fine solution in short terms.

Offline [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2013, 12:17:07 PM »
It's a bummer, for sure : but what's your take on this : how many planes are sitting on tarmac not because they cant be scheduled but because they were bought to avoid taxes at year end? How many are sitting there waiting to be moved to a new base when it opens? How many are sitting there waiting to be re-fleeted wholesale to avoid commonality penalties? How many are sitting there waiting to be sold or leased? How many are sitting there waiting to take advantage of the next slot-drop and thus allow them all the new slot to be taken en-masse and scheduled within the game time limits?

I'd suggest in those circumstances nobody is really complaining about being made bankrupt by the (non-existent) parking fees.

Sorry, but yes, game tactics will have to change, but how is having a plane sitting parked waiting for the next slot-drop any different to having it sitting waiting for slot prices to ease?

Cant have it all ways: folk cant complain they cant fly into slot-locked airports but insist their domination of their own home airport slots is sacrosanct. Same way, you cant complain about un-scheduled aircraft cluttering up the runways when you buy 100's to avoid tax and, to a degree, lock up the production lines and prevent others buying those build slots. Back to the point about parked aircraft waiting for slot drops : how different is it now?



Well spoken

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: No slots today, no slots tomorrow, very limited slots EVER
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2013, 12:19:31 PM »
I dont see a real difference : ordering planes for potential future use is always a risk, no matter how you finance them ; lease, loan or from cash-flow : that remains the same whether you order them in the hope of grabbing the next slot-drop under the previous system or with a more gradual take-up under the new one to keep slot-costs down.

My view is, you'll have more chance of getting any slots at all as the high cost will prevent the early bird grabbing all the worms when they do drop ; true, if you are the usual early bird with your early-warning system of buddies running 24/7 checks for you, it does suck but hey, omelettes and eggs, and not many tears from me for their loss.

YOU are missing a vital point in here pal.

We set out a strategy and stick to it. To play the game or to try something out to see if they like a new way of playing the game. If then some bloke with 'god mode' options comes along and terraform the entire planet and financial system in a RUNNING game, is it so weird you receive complaints?

I get told that it is fair as I have bought '160 slots in the last 6 months'.  Yes, I can translate that in the following:

My competitor flies with 727's 4 legs a day (two slots per day for that AC) That 727 has 200 seats okay, so 2 slots for 400 seats.... My 30 seater needs 8 legs a day to have a return on investments. So that is 4 slots per day at my base airport for 120 seats in total. Guess who is paying premium prices for those slots already without this new 'so called feature to protect smaller airlines'. Well, he is transporting 4 times more Pax then I am, so I might have more slots, but who is the smaller airline in town?

Besides, With yesterdays system I already paid a lot per slot. For him 800K is doable for his 200 seater. For me it is a hell of a lot of money to get 30 seats in the air. And this morning I was faced with 4.500.000 and after complaining 1.6 million. Still way to much to have any return on investment.

This game is hard if you dare running an airline with 50 or less seat aircraft. But today's changes made it undo-able.... AGAIN.

 

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