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Author Topic: [ok] Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type  (Read 3549 times)

Offline [ATA] - lilius

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2013, 06:33:42 PM »
-1

Lazyness of the megahuge airlines is an opportunity for smaller ones to catch up. Let effort and dedication be a deciding factor for success.

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2013, 09:20:15 PM »
Like this!!!

Offline Andre

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2013, 12:20:50 PM »
-1

Lazyness of the megahuge airlines is an opportunity for smaller ones to catch up. Let effort and dedication be a deciding factor for success.

I agree with this.

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2013, 08:59:18 PM »
-1

Lazyness of the megahuge airlines is an opportunity for smaller ones to catch up. Let effort and dedication be a deciding factor for success.

Its a game play issue not limited to the "super huge." Time spent manually converting flights assigned to a type being retired to the type replacing it is wasted time. It will cost Sami money as many airlines, both big and small, will choose to bankrupt and leave the game world rather than redo work that has already been done. No matter what the size of the airline, fleet transition is a fact of life in a 70+ year long game and finding a way to make that transition easier should be a priority.
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Offline [ATA] - lilius

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2013, 06:02:31 PM »
Its a game play issue not limited to the "super huge." Time spent manually converting flights assigned to a type being retired to the type replacing it is wasted time. It will cost Sami money as many airlines, both big and small, will choose to bankrupt and leave the game world rather than redo work that has already been done. No matter what the size of the airline, fleet transition is a fact of life in a 70+ year long game and finding a way to make that transition easier should be a priority.

I disagree. This game is not that fast really and you have approx 1 delivery per month of each type. That gives you 15 hours between each delivery. To manually convert schedules is done in less than 5 minutes per plane. I dont feel sorry for the big airlines, in the beginning of the gameworlds none of them complains about spending time, slot hogging or UM-refreshing.

I think it scares away more potential players when the big airlines just gets bigger and airports are controlled by a few bigger airlines.

If you also consider anything costing Sami it must be more profitable for Sami to have 3 small players established instead of one 300 a/c fleet airline.

ucfknightryan

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2013, 06:25:38 PM »
I disagree. This game is not that fast really and you have approx 1 delivery per month of each type. That gives you 15 hours between each delivery. To manually convert schedules is done in less than 5 minutes per plane. I dont feel sorry for the big airlines, in the beginning of the gameworlds none of them complains about spending time, slot hogging or UM-refreshing.

I think it scares away more potential players when the big airlines just gets bigger and airports are controlled by a few bigger airlines.

If you also consider anything costing Sami it must be more profitable for Sami to have 3 small players established instead of one 300 a/c fleet airline.

Great that's plenty of time, except that the commonality system as it is currently set up will kill your airline if you switch the schedules as aircraft arrive.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2013, 06:57:40 PM »
I don't think "automatically" is the right word to use.  If you have 7 day scheduling and have 7 aircraft with 7 flights each, that is 49 flights.  I'm sure everyone has a different method, but what I do is hover over the route, middle-click edit so it opens in a new tab in the background, repeat for all routes.  Then I check the departure time at the remote location, change the fleet type, adjust the turnaround as needed to either use existing slots I already paid for, ensure long enough turnaround so to limit delays, or my old enemy--making sure the aircraft arrives when the airport is open (at curfewed airports).  Then after I have all of the routes right with appropriate turnaround times between flights, I go through all the tabs and click the confirm/OK button.

Considering 7-day scheduling, it would be much easier if there were a "tool" to view all of these flights on one page as I am only adjusting the fleet type and making minor time adjustments.  You could then "borrow" the times from the identical flight numbers from another aircrafts schedule (i.e. source the times from aircraft #1 to use on aircraft #2 using flight numbers) to keep things consistent, otherwise you end up in a long loop of tedious, mind-numbing clicking and adjusting.

IRL the CEO would not be doing this--the route strategies department or otherwise would be, so I don't see why anyone would be adverse to this.  It goes back to printing nametags for employees.  The CEO focuses on strategic execution and not tactical, so if we can make the tactical execution of fleet conversion a 2-click operation versus a 15-click one, I'm all for it and you should be, too.

Offline Sami

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2013, 07:06:20 PM »
Don't know why there is so much "discussion" about this, since it's given that this feature will be made at some point (ref. talk at the 'long games' thread). However it's complicated and error-prone process so the UI and error messaging would have to be clear on this. But have to see if I can make a rough testing version sometime soon (single flight per time only first, but multi-flight/-plane conversion later too)

Offline [ATA] - lilius

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2013, 08:48:46 PM »
I open new route from current route so both are open. Close all 7 routes but keep slots. Then reopen 7 from the first "new". I dont sit and convert 7 day scheds.


Great that's plenty of time, except that the commonality system as it is currently set up will kill your airline if you switch the schedules as aircraft arrive.

Does it surprise you this way every time you play?

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2013, 10:08:22 PM »
I open new route from current route so both are open. Close all 7 routes but keep slots. Then reopen 7 from the first "new". I dont sit and convert 7 day scheds.


Does it surprise you this way every time you play?


No it doesn't surprise me  ::)  Nor does your response actually have anything to do with the problem I described.

If you are a large airline (300+ frames) and you are operating 3 types you pay an extreme penalty for adding a 4th type, and the relative size of this penalty goes up with the size of your airline.  Therefore it becomes necessary to accumulate enough frames of a new type to dispose of every single frame of the old type at one time.  Therefore you must convert 100+ aircraft in a single sitting, which as things stand is monumentally tedious.

Of course sami is working on some solution to the problem of converting between types so hopefully this situation will improve soon.


Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2014, 08:41:09 PM »
Don't know why there is so much "discussion" about this, since it's given that this feature will be made at some point (ref. talk at the 'long games' thread). However it's complicated and error-prone process so the UI and error messaging would have to be clear on this. But have to see if I can make a rough testing version sometime soon (single flight per time only first, but multi-flight/-plane conversion later too)

Ready and willing to test this feature out, Sami!
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2014, 09:16:18 AM »
Since you are on an upgrade spree, just thought I would bring this request to the top.  :)
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
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Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2015, 07:18:25 PM »
Also bumping due to the new GW4 thread. This would involve using the "transfer schedule" function on the scheduling page. Click the green arrow, select the new plane from the list of available aircraft, which would include all aircraft capable of flying the schedule, not just aircraft of the same type, select the desired aircraft to move the schedule to, click confirm, and the schedule is updated to reflect the new aircraft type.
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2015, 10:33:34 PM »
Yeah its a pain in the ass to do this manually im sure it also over time getting a lot of players to drop worlds or even the  game. There is so many  not user friendly functions in this game. Mass scrapping being another missing option.

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2015, 09:41:02 AM »
bump

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2015, 12:28:06 PM »
It's easy to ask, but who will specify? I mean, when you change to a different fleet group with different speed between airports not open 24/7, the algorithm of adapting the schedule is just a nightmare. I've got ERJ145 lines who leave EDDH at 22h55, and land at airports who open at 6. I just cannot switch those lines to EJets. The plane is too quick. I can't leave EDDH later, neither land earlier at the arrival airport. So, what will your automat do in such a case?

I'm sure that if Sami had full specs containing all possible cases, he would do that easily. But he has none. As many cases are unsolvable, some players prefer to shout louder asking for "magic" solving the problems. The real world does not work like that. You want the feature? Specify each annoying case. Then, maybe, it will be done. Or not, I'm not Sami, and I'm not speaking in its name. Still, I've done my share of (successful, well, most of them)computer projects, and I fail to see an easy way to make all this work. It's a hard subject as soon as you have a slight difference in speed, due to airports having closing times(you never tried to plan tech stops in Narsarsuaq? I did, and I gave up).

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2015, 07:24:08 PM »
Read the feature request. Very simply, keep same departure times after swap and if an airport is closed at the "new" arrival time the swap is rejected with a message. Alternately, the arrival and departure times could be kept the same regardless of speed kind of like what happens now when a new airport opens. It could just check that the turn time is sufficient for the new plane and then apply the schedule.
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2015, 07:59:18 PM »
Going from a md88 to a md90 wont make much of a difference. That is where this kind of support will be very usefull.

In the end its my responsibility to make sure all schedules still fit and work out.

Doesn't seem too hard to pick up on short term?

Offline CarlBagot

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2015, 08:28:07 PM »
 why could we not have a band of speeds per aircraft,  (most planes have an optimal speed but can go a lil faster or slower without too much penalty)  maybe even have holding times?  Its not like all planes go at their max cruise speeds on all routes and it not like planes have to land as soon as they reach the airport. 

This would help things greatly scheduling wise especially for planes too fast which get there 5 to 30 min before the airport opens.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2015, 06:38:01 AM »
why could we not have a band of speeds per aircraft,  (most planes have an optimal speed but can go a lil faster or slower without too much penalty)  maybe even have holding times?  Its not like all planes go at their max cruise speeds on all routes and it not like planes have to land as soon as they reach the airport. 

This would help things greatly scheduling wise especially for planes too fast which get there 5 to 30 min before the airport opens.

This I like. And it would make the original asked feature far more workable. Though I have no clue on the amount of work involved. But it's a thing naturally to do before being able to switch schedules.

 

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