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Author Topic: [ok] Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane  (Read 957 times)

Offline Sanabas

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I've got a few planes leased out in JA. One is on a long lease, to a player who grabbed 2 planes, and hasn't logged in for 5 days. He's been steadily losing money the whole time, and now has at least 6 million in negative cash. A & B checks still get done, but my plane's C-check just came due, and it's still flying, because heavy maintenance has stopped due to lack of cash. By the time he gets shut down, or the plane gets grounded, the condition could be down to 50% or less. Joys of leasing planes out, but it'd be good to be able to do an inspection of your own asset, and get the plane grounded quickly when heavy maintenance has been skipped.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 05:42:36 PM by sami »

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2013, 06:07:56 PM »
Strangely, despite the lack of cash, A & B checks were done on time. But now that the C-check was missed, A-checks are also being missed. Plane looks to be losing 1% of condition every day.

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2013, 04:59:47 AM »
You'll get the plane back with 4%, just like I got mine back after a force BK

Cost to repair the plane is enormous and take a long time, too >:(

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2013, 09:53:34 AM »
In the "real world" I guess companies look after their assets. I've seen this story happening before and its definately something which should be looked as you can can't really control who leases your planes. On the open market its open for the grabs...

Indeed the leasing company should be able to send their employes to do a ramp check, they could report back and the leasing company could give a yes or no to ground the plane...

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2013, 08:30:50 PM »
A, B, C checks all 3 months out of date now, it's down to 30%, and still flying. Plane's value has dropped by ~20%, and the price to do maintenance has more than doubled, from about 150k for a C-check up to 373k. I've received ~3 million in lease income on the plane over the last 21 months, and will likely end up spending all of it & more to make the plane usable again. I'd have been happy to pay the 150k to put the plane through C-check myself back when it was due to prevent this happening. :(

Offline spiff23

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2013, 11:56:00 PM »
Can you just manually D check it when it comes back?  I thought that covered everything.

Having gotten back a 20% condition plane in the past, I would fully support building in an auto trigger  of some sort where the lease automatically terminates if the plane falls below a certain level. 

The other option, I've thought about is a pop up button that would let you scrap the plane if you get it back at say less than 50%(?) regardless how old it is.  This might not be worth it if its 4 years old, but definitely when you get a 10 year old plane back like this and have no desire to sink money to fix it.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2013, 10:32:27 AM »
I doubt a D-check would get it back to 100%. Not sure, I'll have a look when it gets returned. And even though it's only 3.5 years old, D-check now costs over $2 million. It appears to have been grounded, with the condition at 34%, and the plane's value has dropped from ~9.25 mill to 7.1 mill.

Offline pascaly

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2013, 03:27:45 AM »
Some kind of "cancel lease" function would be good.

Have a few different criteria;

Missed A, B & C check by 1+ month and/or
Condition less than 50% (60%?) and/or
Loss of ~25% (?) hull value due to lack of maintenance only (not just regular depreciation)

If one or more of the criteria are met, the lessor can cancel the lease.

Any kind of financial penalty against the leasing airline is pointless as 99% of the time, they are broke anyway.

Perhaps some kind of "lease rating" where if you have a lease cancelled on you, you get negative mark against your account (across all games) that means you have to pay a higher deposit (6 months' fees?) the next time you lease a plane. 2 negative marks = 8 months and so on. I'm not sure how you would go about removing that negative mark though.

Just some suggestions and those with more experience leasing out aircraft will have a better grasp on the specifics of the criteria.

Offline Boot

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2013, 06:26:26 PM »
"#%"#/%"##"(#"!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

One idiot leased my brand new 737-100, now it's 6 months old and in 18% condition... great stuff!
A & B check were done 5.5 months ago....

Something needs to be done to protect us from idiots like that.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 03:07:05 PM »
Don't lease to open market?   

brique

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 03:40:43 PM »
It happens, unfortunately, and is one of the costs of being a player-broker : not the first time this subject has been raised and prob not the last either.

I'd favour a sort of warning system, not unlike the one used for over-supply : if the broker sees an aircraft is in a bad way, they can issue a formal warning, via a system message, demanding it be repaired to an acceptable level and, if nothing is done in response, the system then cancels the lease and returns the aircraft to the broker.

An alternative would be for a minimum level of condition be required for leased planes, say 70%, and if one falls below that, it is automatically grounded until repaired. That way, even if the airline has been abandoned, further damage is prevented until the banks close it up and return aircraft to owners.


Online Sami

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2013, 03:55:47 PM »
Some easy and elegant solution, and I'll build it.

Like the mentioned lease term where you can define a minimum cond %, and if it's below that it can't fly until repaired. (but not returned either)

or something that way, the above is relatively easy to code

Offline Infinity

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2013, 04:39:09 PM »
I have to say, I'll second any motion to introduce such a feature, but I don't really see a pressing need for it or even a need that is big enough to have Sami shift his focus from more important features coming up.

I am currently MT8s largest lessor with 620 aircraft leased out, and in all of MT8 I have received back a ton of planes due to bankruptcies. And there was only one case where the planes condition was detoriated. A rather expensive one as it was 7 A380s, but nevermind that.

All I mean to say is, it doesnt happen often enough to give it a high priority. Yes, it is annoying when it happens. But usually, when you are leasing out planes, you are in a financial condition that lets you absorb it rather easily.

BD

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2013, 05:38:31 PM »
It happens, unfortunately, and is one of the costs of being a player-broker : not the first time this subject has been raised and prob not the last either.

I'd favour a sort of warning system, not unlike the one used for over-supply : if the broker sees an aircraft is in a bad way, they can issue a formal warning, via a system message, demanding it be repaired to an acceptable level and, if nothing is done in response, the system then cancels the lease and returns the aircraft to the broker.

An alternative would be for a minimum level of condition be required for leased planes, say 70%, and if one falls below that, it is automatically grounded until repaired. That way, even if the airline has been abandoned, further damage is prevented until the banks close it up and return aircraft to owners.
The grounded option is probably better.  

Otherwise, foregoing maintenance on an aircraft to the point that it gets returned saves the offender from future lease payments, which might ironically encourage this practice as a means to stave off BK.  :P

brique

  • Former member
Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2013, 06:15:11 PM »
Yes, I see what you mean, its hard to come up with solutions that can not be 'gamed' to achieve other ends, such as escaping an unwanted long lease.

In which case, the 'grounded until repaired' option seems to work best : the lease payments still fall due, so there is no benefit in deliberately missing mx on them if they cant fly and earn revenues. If the airline has been abandoned, then it will come home eventually, in no worse condition.

Having had planes finally returned at levels like 4% condition, you end up spending vast amounts bringing them back into service ; a single d-check doesnt cover that amount of damage :as I seem to recall, it maxes out around +60% improvement or so ; the rest has to be done as extra maints : as mentioned, if you do lease out a lot of planes, its not a killer event in itself, but it is damn annoying when it happens especially as, currently, there is nothing you can do except watch it and weep.

I personally dont mind planes coming back at around 80%, nor if it lands home the day before its d-check is due : that's all in the deal : but these nightmare ones fall so far outside the norm, one wonders how they have avoided the 'random' in-game spot-checks which always seem to catch mine the moment get an a-check missed when switching skeds... oh well... one of lifes mysteries, I suppose.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 06:21:13 PM by brique »

Offline Boot

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2013, 02:34:59 PM »
And again... I get 3.3yo AC back from lessor in 38% condition...

Offline spiff23

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Re: Send the FAA or equivalent around to check your leased out plane
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2013, 06:48:04 PM »
I mentioned in JA, so not sure if SAMI programmed, but I got a plane back in terrible shape from a bankrupt.  It was less than 15 years old and it gave me an option to scrap it.   The plane was at least 12 years old and I like this option!! ( assuming something must have been programmed).

 Still sucks, if plane hasn't made it to the first D check but That's the risk/reward equation unfortunately.

 

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