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Author Topic: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing  (Read 1485 times)

Offline Sami

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Advance notice that the noise certification levels will soon become an actual feature.

Now they are already visible next to each aircraft/engine, but soon they will be enforced by the system in all game worlds (possibly apart from current Modern Times).

However this is not urgent since for example chapter 1 planes were banned in USA around 1987 and chapter 2 in 1999.

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2013, 01:07:32 PM »
This brings up a good feature request....hush kit upgrades for 727, 737, DC-9 and any other plane that had the option to make them Stage 3 compliant. While we are at it, can I also throw engine upgrade options in the mix? IE re-engine options on the DC-8 Super 60's to bring them to -7X specs with CFM power?

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2013, 04:04:46 PM »
I agree with J.W.I.

It seems unfair to introduce noise level bans without introducing hush-kit upgrades. That makes the ban much harder than real life.

Would be like banning twin-engine planes from crossing oceans without allowing for ETOPS certification.

Offline Sami

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2013, 04:06:09 PM »
See feature requests forum for that where I already posted about this earlier. That cannot be added without data.

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2013, 04:33:47 PM »
But adding noise restructions without adding the real-world ways airlines used to comply with them will make many A/C unplayable in the later era (especially problematic for long worlds), forcing more fleet changes (which are already a pain when you have to manually edit hundreds of routes), and shorten the shelf life of each fleet the airline rotates through.

Offline Sami

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2013, 04:35:39 PM »
Sorry but please read what I wrote especially in the feature rq. forum about adding this feature, namely here: http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,16458.msg268404.html#msg268404

You cannot fly a DC-9 till 2020 or that way, simple.

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2013, 04:37:11 PM »
Sorry but please read what I wrote especially in the feature rq. forum about adding this feature, namely here: http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,16458.msg268404.html#msg268404

You cannot fly a DC-9 till 2020 or that way, simple.

OK! that sounds fair if you have time to implement the changes based on player researched data.

Offline schro

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2013, 04:43:52 PM »
Sorry but please read what I wrote especially in the feature rq. forum about adding this feature, namely here: http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,16458.msg268404.html#msg268404

You cannot fly a DC-9 till 2020 or that way, simple.

On the topic of DC9's, Delta is still flying them now in 2013 (I rode on one 2 weeks ago.. AND it was over 35 years old), yet they are marked as Stage 2 in game right now. If stage 2 is banned in 1999, then you'd be requiring them to be mothballed at the time of their second D check if you assume production ends in the early 80's as it did in real life. As you may know, when the last A320 is retired to the desert, the pilots will be ferried home on a DC9....

As long as the upgrade feature is implemented prior to it becoming a hard limit in the game, I suspect all of the noisy players objecting in this thread would be satisfied.

Offline Sami

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2013, 04:46:06 PM »
Well I knew the next post was about Delta and their ancient metal.  ;D  Yes, I do know those.

It's an exception really, nobody else does that really in the western world. And they are hushkitted to chapter 3 standard. And what comes to the game, it depends on the data - there aren't that many optional upgrades/retrofits to the main models so it shouldn't be a problem. (we can directly leave all 50s and early 60s models out)

mar88

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2013, 05:00:55 PM »
So would the restrictions be done by nation, airport, or globally all at once? I ask because restrictions in the less economically advanced parts of the world are far less stringent than those in the western world which gives older aircraft a second chance at flying. And on that note, are there any plans to re-work the aging system in the game? Because a lot of aircraft being retired that should have at least another decade of service left. It wasn't unrealistic to find a 45 year old DC-3 or DC-4 still running in South America or Africa in the 1990s and even 2000s, the current model of maintenance costs make that impossible, not to mention the age cap. I just ran a 727-100 to the max age of 35 in DoTM, and outside of the unrealistically expensive maint costs for C and D-checks, the plane turned a profit until the very end. I think that a re-work of the maintenance costs and the max age would allow some of these older liners to see some use in the less economically  advanced parts of the world once they can’t fly in the west.


I would also suggest the removal of the price floor for an aircraft once it hits a certain age, if my 727 hits 20 years old it will be near impossible to sell for 15mil, but if it is still economically viable and I can mark it low enough, maybe older aircraft will have an actual market for a change.

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2013, 05:57:10 PM »
Well I knew the next post was about Delta and their ancient metal.  ;D  Yes, I do know those.

It's an exception really, nobody else does that really in the western world. And they are hushkitted to chapter 3 standard. And what comes to the game, it depends on the data - there aren't that many optional upgrades/retrofits to the main models so it shouldn't be a problem. (we can directly leave all 50s and early 60s models out)

Many of the world's leading airlines fly quite old aircraft and still provide excellent service:

Cubana de Aviacion
Saha Airlines
Air Koryo
Delta Airlines

 ;D

Offline spiff23

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 04:50:02 AM »
Darn, I was hoping to fly BAC-111s with a production line open until 2019!

That Fokker-rolls Royce conspiracy...now we know Sami had a part in it too.  :laugh:

I do agree that hopefully the old planes can be offered to developing world players for a few extra years.  I can only imagine some of the used markets for DC9s, 727s by the year 2000 though :o

Offline tcrlaf

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 05:07:12 AM »
Many of the world's leading airlines fly quite old aircraft and still provide excellent service:

Cubana de Aviacion
Saha Airlines
Air Koryo
Delta Airlines

 ;D

I knew the Purdue Prof that held the patents for two of three most-widely used aircraft "Hush Kits". They are basically just pieces of metal that redirect/realign airflow through the engines. Hush kits also have a performance penalty (range/fuel consumption, etc.) because of this, that can vary greatly by aircraft type. Also, Delta's Diesel Nines came from Northwest, which found it better during hard times to keep, and rebuild the airplanes, considering they already owned a HUGE spare parts farm in the desert, being nines they previously removed from service. (ex-OZ,RP) The Nines are now being replaced by 717's from AirTran, at the rate of 3 per month, for a total of 88, when the transfer is done.

Offline Sami

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Re: Advance notice of a new feature affecting long term playing
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2013, 11:00:20 AM »
Darn, I was hoping to fly BAC-111s with a production line open until 2019!

That Fokker-rolls Royce conspiracy...now we know Sami had a part in it too.  :

Bac does have a stage 3 hushkit. Though in real life it has been only marginally stage 3, so it cannot be used at most airports but in Aws there will not be any special "stage 3 -8db" restrictions.

 

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