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Author Topic: Jet Age Question  (Read 1024 times)

Online ChuckPerry

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Jet Age Question
« on: July 05, 2013, 04:31:22 PM »
Hey Guys.. Like I said in a post yesterday, I've never played "The Jet Age" before... and I've got a question that maybe someone who has can answer... Since it starts in 1955 and it's mostly short range prop planes that the airlines used back then is it possible to say fly a DC-3 from Chicago to Los Angelus with a full load of passengers with a couple of fuel stops??   I've looked but I haven't seen this question asked in the forum... Thanks for any insight.. Chuck

Offline bdnascar3

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2013, 09:31:13 PM »
It is possible, however my expierence with fuel stops is that the load factors are not as high as a non stop and I lost money doing it that way. But to answer your question, it is possible.

Online ChuckPerry

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2013, 11:37:19 PM »
Thanks...

Offline Fluclo

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 09:55:39 AM »
Pity it can't be an actual stop, in the above example Chicago > Denver > Los Angeles, and have passengers for each of the three (Chicago to Denver, Denver to Los Angeles, Chicago to Los Angeles)

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 02:28:42 PM »
A to B and B to C once were part of the game. That was altered for the possibilities to open up multiple bases.
Still not quite sure if somehing like this will be introduced with new demand modelling system.This is now the focus overhaul plan after new interface was launched.

Online ChuckPerry

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2013, 10:04:24 PM »
Pity it can't be an actual stop, in the above example Chicago > Denver > Los Angeles, and have passengers for each of the three (Chicago to Denver, Denver to Los Angeles, Chicago to Los Angeles)

That's exactly the way the airlines flew back in the 1950's and 1960's... the years that we're 'simulating'....

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 01:22:23 AM »
Yes, but it was said many times before, this is a game , not the perfect reflection of any traffic at any time. Many things canīt be done because of game balance and because many factors of real life canīt be reflected here.You may be restricted in this aspect of early air traffic, but otherwise you have free skies, free economics all over the world, when everything was restricted by laws and politics in RL.
Itīs impossible to create a game that incorporates every detail of reality in every corner of the world during a time-span of 70 years.
ABCBA- routing didnīt work out because it was misused by the big boys leaving newcomers and late starters no way to go. So it was changed for multi-basing, that we didnīt have at that time.

Offline tcrlaf

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 02:55:18 AM »
That's exactly the way the airlines flew back in the 1950's and 1960's... the years that we're 'simulating'....

Airlines also flew routes that way because the U.S. Government (CAB- forerunner to the FAA) only allowed ONE airline to fly a given route. (MAJOR trunk routes sometimes had two, but that was very rare. For instance, for years only American (LGA-base) and United (ORD-base) could fly ORD-LGA. No other airline was allowed to fly this route, even if they had a base at both airports.

Another for instance:

TWA had the rights to MCI-LGA, but Branniff wanted to fly it, as well. So they got the rights to MCI-HUF (Terre Haute, Indiana), and the rights from HUF-LGA, flying it with 1xBac1-11 a day, each way, with a 15 minute "Whistle-Stop" in Huf for both trips. (My first airline flight was HUF-LGA in 1976). This was short-lived, maybe about 15 months before Dereg began. Alleghany/USAir did the same thing in many places. (Pit-LAF-ORD, for instance.) TWA ran several flights of that type from STL/MCI through the airports they wholly-owned in Illinois. (CMI,BMI,PIA)

Online ChuckPerry

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 05:07:21 AM »
Yes, but it was said many times before, this is a game , not the perfect reflection of any traffic at any time. Many things canīt be done because of game balance and because many factors of real life canīt be reflected here.You may be restricted in this aspect of early air traffic, but otherwise you have free skies, free economics all over the world, when everything was restricted by laws and politics in RL.
Itīs impossible to create a game that incorporates every detail of reality in every corner of the world during a time-span of 70 years.
ABCBA- routing didnīt work out because it was misused by the big boys leaving newcomers and late starters no way to go. So it was changed for multi-basing, that we didnīt have at that time.

Wait a minute.. I was told a long time ago that this this is NOT a GAME.. This is a SIMULATION!!  I know everything can't be perfectly simulated the way the airlines did it in the past but I for one would rather see more emphasis given to improving realism that emphasis on making the interface look better!  I would love to play in a game that started in the 50's during regulation and continued through the 70's when any airline could fly anywhere regardless of if it had a base there or not... It would open up an entirely new set of challenges.. Also the way the program works now your airline takes a hit on reputation and morale for laying off pilots.. What about as airplanes went from 4 man cockpits to 2 man cockpits??  You obviously will need fewer pilots but if you lay off any, then your airline takes a hit... There is no 'retirement of pilots option" in Airwaysim.. so how do you downsize pilots without a penalty??  Just a few questions that i've never heard discussed....

Online dmoose42

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 05:13:33 AM »
Everything had been discussed at some time or another.  The retirement of pilots issue has been largely muted by the fact that the switch from 4 pilots to 2 pilots is offset by the large PAX growth over time which requires more planes.

As for the US experience with regulation/deregulation etc. - this experience varies significantly by country and would add a significant amount of complexity.  While some may view it as worthwhile, there would surely have to be some type of simplifying assumptions to make it consistent and applicable across the board - perhaps has three state types (regulated, government controlled, free market), each with their own rules...

A-B-C-B-A flying has been outlawed due to abuse in the past.

Online ChuckPerry

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 05:27:01 AM »
Well then if you want to be more 'realistic' the very large pax growth (which happened anyway regardless of how many pilots it took to crew the planes) along with more fuel efficient planes and the need for half the number of highly paid pilots should result in a huge increase in profits..... I don't see that happening...

Online ChuckPerry

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2013, 05:29:33 AM »
The growth in Pax didn't always require more planes since the capacity of the newer planes more than doubled... DC6-707-L1011-747-A380.. ect..

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 02:11:22 PM »
This is a game, otherwise nobody would give you millions of dollars to start an airline in the first place.
What fun would it be to simulate a completely regulated sky, where only one airline is allowed to serve a sector and international traffic was based on gouvernment treaties ?
I canīt see any point in that.
System always calculates on real figures, how many pilots are needed to fly your planes. If you donīt change the number of your planes but only move on to more economic models, you will end up having too many of them.You can pull them through, fire them one at a time or at once as you like, whatīs your point?
Staff costs are only one aspect of airline economics. As those may get smaller over time, all other, especially fuel, rise. Thereīs one point why you may not see better revenues besides growing competition and lower air fares.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 02:17:46 PM by exchlbg »

Offline RougeCanuck

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Re: Jet Age Question
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2013, 12:10:10 AM »
And even though it has negative implications, it's entirely realistic for Morale to take a hit, it does when lay offs happen.

 

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