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Author Topic: Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?  (Read 672 times)

BD

  • Former member
Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?
« on: June 28, 2013, 11:53:08 AM »
Has this happened to anyone else?

Weeks 31 and 32 did not show any Payments, Fees, nor Interest.

They resumed on week 33.

BD

  • Former member
Re: Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 08:12:37 PM »
Happened again on Week 35.

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 08:30:57 PM »
Your balance has been negative and loan payment has not been made for that reason.

BD

  • Former member
Re: Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2013, 01:50:45 AM »
Your balance has been negative and loan payment has not been made for that reason.
No warning messages though.   I have received "payment failed" message in past, and a bankruptcy warning quite some time ago in game time (which I have since deleted thinking I am in the clear).  

What day of week are payments "pulled"?  UPDATE:  MONDAY NOON - these bank payments PLUS a bit of each of Rent, Staff Training, Maintenance (not sure what these last bits represent), and I verified that I am not getting payment failure notices

Tuesday is always a big hit for personnel costs, turning my positive cash balance negative for up to three or four days.  

Perhaps more importantly, if the payments are due for withdrawal during the negative balances, even though I get no warning each week a payment failure happens, am I in danger of the "bank" closing down the airline?

If so, I will halt on acquiring more aircraft to build the cash balance to cover the personnel cash flow issue.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 12:30:45 PM by BD »

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2013, 04:43:59 AM »
No warning messages though.   I have received "payment failed" message in past, and a bankruptcy warning quite some time ago in game time (which I have since deleted thinking I am in the clear).  

What day of week are payments "pulled"?  

Tuesday is always a big hit for personnel costs, turning my positive cash balance negative for up to three or four days. 

Perhaps more importantly, if the payments are due for withdrawal during the negative balances, even though I get no warning each week a payment failure happens, am I in danger of the "bank" closing down the airline?

If so, I will halt on acquiring more aircraft to build the cash balance to cover the personnel cash flow issue.
You could be in danger and let sleeping dogs lye. Don't acquire anything else until you're in the clear and your balance sheet is up.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2013, 11:54:06 AM »
You should slow down on expanding your airline too fast ,anyway. If you have to count around the pennies to pay your staff, your airline is in obvious danger even without system always telling you that.
Overexpanding is a common reason for BK.

BD

  • Former member
Re: Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 01:07:17 AM »
Thanks guys...

Is there a definite "last minute" warning?  

I read (and recall from the message a time limit - deleted it thinking I had made payments several weeks in a row and no other messages came after a week of default) that the time limit for correction is six real days.  Not sure when I received that message, but conceivably I could cut marketing and easily be in the clear within a game week.  At the moment, no more purchases, but during this Autumn season there are plenty of C-checks using up cash, so some weeks may be negative.  Hence, a last minute warning and a slashing marketing might do the trick, depending on how the "decision" is made...

Not sure the basis for the decision by the "bank" for "foreclosure".   I imagine it is triggered by the non-payment of the loans, etc., but I have been making those without issue unless I had acquired a few aircraft (large ones for LH, but big $).  

But, is it the "on balance over time", or is it "X number of times in default" over a specific period, or is it "on day Y" a specific time after the warning, if payment is in default THAT PARTICULAR day, bankruptcy occurs, or does the time period counter "recalibrate" based on the last week of default?  All these are very different scenarios.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2013, 05:55:56 PM »
I think that the first time you miss a loan payment, you'll receive a message saying the payment failed. But every subsequent time you miss a payment on that specific loan, you won't receive another message saying so.

In order to be shut down by the bank, you'll need to see the big red warning box on the front page of your airline, which only appears when you have both negative cash AND negative cashflow. And you'll need to have that big red warning box be there for 48 hours real time straight. The counter will reset if you're briefly profitable. If you last the 48 hours, it won't be a surprise shutdown, your airline will already be very, very dead.

Surprise foreclosures don't happen, so no need to worry about them. What can happen is a surprise death spiral, where some combination of staff payments, maintenance, tax deductions, plane deliveries, etc tips you briefly too far into negative cash, then you lose a couple of planes thanks to no cash for renewing leases, marketing stops and CI starts to drop, so you're now losing a bit more cash, can't pay to rearrange slots, can't get replacement planes, and just slip further into the red. At that point you can manually pull the plug, or wait the 48 hours to see what being foreclosed looks like. If you're too agressive and run your cash too close to 0, it's possible to kill a completely healthy airline that way.

BD

  • Former member
Re: Bank Holiday? Why No Bank Charges?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2013, 07:16:57 PM »
In order to be shut down by the bank, you'll need to see the big red warning box on the front page of your airline, which only appears when you have both negative cash AND negative cashflow. And you'll need to have that big red warning box be there for 48 hours real time straight. The counter will reset if you're briefly profitable. If you last the 48 hours, it won't be a surprise shutdown, your airline will already be very, very dead.
Thanks...you are in a very helpful mood today!  ;D

By my observation, I think negative cash is the trigger, specifically not enough to make the loan payments.  The first week I was able to recently, that day the red warning box disappeared.

What was missing last time, that I did not see was the big red warning box when you first go into a game (i.e. Dashboard screen).  I did not have that so was wondering if I had passed the threshold or if I was still in danger.  Evidently, I reset the counter and no longer was under "bankruptcy watch".

Unless one knows the triggers, it is not clear what status one is in after a warning message.

BTW, the warning message says one has six real time days to correct the problem.  Direct quote from the message "This is the first warning of bankruptcy - you have still 6 days time (real time) to act before the bank will take over your airline."  That amounts to close to a year of game world time.

...What can happen is a surprise death spiral, where some combination of staff payments, maintenance, tax deductions, plane deliveries, etc tips you briefly too far into negative cash, then you lose a couple of planes thanks to no cash for renewing leases, marketing stops and CI starts to drop, so you're now losing a bit more cash, can't pay to rearrange slots, can't get replacement planes, and just slip further into the red. At that point you can manually pull the plug, or wait the 48 hours to see what being foreclosed looks like. If you're too agressive and run your cash too close to 0, it's possible to kill a completely healthy airline that way.
You got that right!

It is a cash flow problem that can get you, even though you have the ability to otherwise sustain a viable operation.  You describe the experience exactly, because even the things you need to do to mitigate the problem are impossible to execute.

In the recent run up in fuel price I was not able to renew aircraft leases (unfortunate timing) or adjust slots, so lost a few of both.  With fuel backing down, I'm back in positive territory.  I was able to ride it out, but looks like many were not.  Not sure how fuel prices behave in the other worlds (i.e. do they stay high for longer periods of time - in which case, fewer would be able to ride it out).

I think the threshold is not zero cash, but running with less cash than your weekly personnel costs.  They hit every Tuesday at noon, and you are in the negative until Fri/Sat or Sun when your revenues have caught up to put you back into positive territory.  You are in handcuffs until then every week.  If your cash balance starts to turn negative at the end of Tuesday, that should be a sign that you are getting into trouble, and you have a chance still to take corrective action.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 07:20:11 PM by BD »

 

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