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Author Topic: Fleet types  (Read 1128 times)

cht7520

  • Former member
Fleet types
« on: May 10, 2013, 07:32:55 PM »
Does the 4th fleet type penalty not hurt in this game world?

Offline Infinity

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 08:38:05 PM »
I'm sure it does. However, the magnitude of it depends greatly on the overall size of your fleet. If you only have a couple dozen aircraft, it will not be very noticeable, but when you operate several hundred aircraft, it will save you tens of millions of dollars per week.

Offline Superbenj

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2013, 11:56:18 AM »
Is the 4th fleet type based on type or manufacturer?

Im guess the clue is in the question but just wanted to be sure before I decide to invest in a 4th type (I already operate ATRs, A310s and 777s)

Offline Infinity

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 12:23:59 PM »
Type. You can operate 737s, 757s, 767s and 777s and still get hurt by the penalty. Manufacturer plays no role.

Offline Superbenj

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 01:52:50 PM »
Hmmm, why does the 4th make such a big difference? Is it just a game feature or is there a real life principle behind it??

I really need a 4th type to fill a capacity gap in order to expand further. I guess I have no option but to grin and bear it as I assume it will still work out cheaper than running much more thirsty aircraft, half empty, over the same distance

Offline Infinity

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 03:09:37 PM »
Hmmm, why does the 4th make such a big difference? Is it just a game feature or is there a real life principle behind it??

I really need a 4th type to fill a capacity gap in order to expand further. I guess I have no option but to grin and bear it as I assume it will still work out cheaper than running much more thirsty aircraft, half empty, over the same distance

3 to 4 and 6 to 7 are the important big stepups in commonality cost. Like I said, it scales with the size of the airline, so in your case, adding a fourth type wont hurt much. It only starts to get really bothering at around 200 overall aircraft.
Look at Air Tekie, he is flying every type and their mothers, and still he can get away with that huge mistake at medium fuel, cause he owns many of his routes. Same with CANair. Both could get tens of millions of additional profit (per week!) out of scaling down to 3 fleets.

Offline Superbenj

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 06:37:29 PM »
Coming into the game a bit late, like I have, means my margins are tight as there are no real routes I've been able to take as my own, there's a few options I've ID'd as potential profit makers but I'm worried a 4th type will eat into the narrow margins I've made elsewhere.

I think in reality I need to get two more types in to exploit the few opportunities out there, so it's good to hear if I get a 4th, the 5th won't provide a similar harsh penalty above the standard commonality penalties

Think I'll go for it, just to see what happens of nothing else. Hope to get in from the kick off on the next game so I can build up a baseline and take what I've learnt re fleet selection this time to get a more balanced capacity level

Offline Infinity

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2013, 07:31:02 PM »
What you will have to learn to succeed eventually is to have a look at your bases entire demand and select 2-3 types that fit it well. Also remember demand will grow a bit over time, so rather pick a bit oversized than a perfect fit.
Many new players make the mistake to chose their aircraft after single routes, which consequently ends in them having a suboptimal fleet choice. I noticed this with your earlier try in Boston, you acquired the 747, which makes no sense in Boston, because it can only fly to a few destinations from there. So to get the other destinations served, you needed another type. In cases like that, rather take the smaller one and fly twice a day to the destinations you would use a 747 to. Generally, multiple long haul fleets only make the least bit of sense in the worlds top 10 airports. And even there I would mostly go with a single long haul fleet. LHR is the only base where two differently sized long haul fleets make real sense.

For short haul, it is okay to go over the 3 fleet threshold in the expansion phase if you can't get enough of your main type. Just make sure you don't get so many that replacing will become a real problem.

So, the perfect fleet choice suits the MAJORITY of your potential routes. If it's too big for some, just pass on them. That's okay. If its too small - just fly multiple times. Getting a different sized aircraft for every route size is maybe THE most frequent newcomer mistake I see out there.

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2013, 02:51:59 AM »
Just realized Superbenj shares BOS with me. Further add to saftfrucht's comment, your B777s make no sense either, same reason as he said for the B747. Only a handful of routes have barely enough demand for B777-200, not to mention the 300 you're operating

BOS leans toward domestic demand with enormous routes with demand 140-200, so if I were you, I'd take the B737 classic for their availability and their fit for the base. MD-80 works, too but for short term (1-2 years until fuel reach $1000). You're flying B777 on some thin domestic routes, and when competitor pop up (me  :-\), then you'll be bleeding much. Your A300s and B777s are simply at disadvantages vs my A320s

Oh, saftfrucht, it hurts me when you said
Quote
LHR is the only base where two differently sized long haul fleets make real sense.
  :'(

cht7520

  • Former member
Re: Fleet types
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 04:00:35 AM »
I'm doing great with sticking to 3 :)

Offline Infinity

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2013, 07:08:06 AM »

Oh, saftfrucht, it hurts me when you said   :'(

Well :D It's okay from other bases as well, but it makes fleet replacement very expensive. You can't replace your 767s for 787s without going to 4 types for a time.

Offline Superbenj

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2013, 08:16:55 AM »
Just realized Superbenj shares BOS with me. Further add to saftfrucht's comment, your B777s make no sense either, same reason as he said for the B747. Only a handful of routes have barely enough demand for B777-200, not to mention the 300 you're operating

BOS leans toward domestic demand with enormous routes with demand 140-200, so if I were you, I'd take the B737 classic for their availability and their fit for the base. MD-80 works, too but for short term (1-2 years until fuel reach $1000). You're flying B777 on some thin domestic routes, and when competitor pop up (me  :-\), then you'll be bleeding much. Your A300s and B777s are simply at disadvantages vs my A320s

Oh, saftfrucht, it hurts me when you said   :'(

I know, there was nowhere else without competition to fly though, so the 777s made sense and make money on the longhaul sectors they are deployed on, as long as the short hauls are green Im not too bothered. Sadly though I've run out of places to send them, so as a fleet its kind of run out of expansion opportunities and therefore was definitely a wrong move as a long term gameplan.

You live and learn, this is my first proper game and I've picked up so much already from the mistakes I've made, so am looking forward to starting from scratch, from the kick off, next time. Sadly I'll have to wait months before I can start again now though and will probably forget about it!

Is it possible to get alerts to tell you when new games are starting?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 08:19:18 AM by Superbenj »

Offline Superbenj

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Re: Fleet types
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2013, 08:22:13 AM »
What you will have to learn to succeed eventually is to have a look at your bases entire demand and select 2-3 types that fit it well. Also remember demand will grow a bit over time, so rather pick a bit oversized than a perfect fit.
Many new players make the mistake to chose their aircraft after single routes, which consequently ends in them having a suboptimal fleet choice. I noticed this with your earlier try in Boston, you acquired the 747, which makes no sense in Boston, because it can only fly to a few destinations from there. So to get the other destinations served, you needed another type. In cases like that, rather take the smaller one and fly twice a day to the destinations you would use a 747 to. Generally, multiple long haul fleets only make the least bit of sense in the worlds top 10 airports. And even there I would mostly go with a single long haul fleet. LHR is the only base where two differently sized long haul fleets make real sense.

For short haul, it is okay to go over the 3 fleet threshold in the expansion phase if you can't get enough of your main type. Just make sure you don't get so many that replacing will become a real problem.

So, the perfect fleet choice suits the MAJORITY of your potential routes. If it's too big for some, just pass on them. That's okay. If its too small - just fly multiple times. Getting a different sized aircraft for every route size is maybe THE most frequent newcomer mistake I see out there.

This is definitely the trap I fell into and my lesson is learnt, I've really enjoyed it despite the mistakes though!

Offline Mr.HP

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  • Posts: 2730
Re: Fleet types
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2013, 11:21:49 AM »
Is it possible to get alerts to tell you when new games are starting?

I don't receive email about new game world being opened. But I do for game world that ends. So when MT8 ends, you'll be notify and can join MT9 which should be opened 1-2 weeks after that

Offline Infinity

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    • Aviation Awareness
Re: Fleet types
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2013, 11:40:10 AM »
Also it's posted on the Facebook page.

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Fleet types
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2013, 04:50:35 AM »
I have Airbus, Boeings, and Crj's. Profits are going no where but up. So, you should pick a main manufacturer, but you can add others, I've found if you operate more than
one its ok because that does create a bit of commonality. After that, could get a bit hairy. But I'm doing well, regardless of  the mix. They suit the routes they are on and doing fine. Also should mention that this goes on in real life. Gosh, does the new AA fly a 777 or an A330??? It's gonna come to that.













































































































































































































































 

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