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Online Airline Management Simulation
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Author Topic: Base Airport choices!  (Read 1047 times)

Offline AIRmoe

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Base Airport choices!
« on: April 13, 2013, 08:54:23 PM »
As an airline based in Algiers, I am crippled in my choices for a 2nd base, since you force me to take an airport in Algeria. The next best choice I do have is Oran, and it's a size 3 airport with very low pax demand numbers! I should be able to choose an airport within my economical region, which is North Africa, including cities like Casablanca, Tunis, Tripoli, and Cairo!!! This system is flawed and it's very frustrating when you see the European and North American based airlines enjoying the vast choices they have! ... Sorry for ranting, but this is not fair!

brique

  • Former member
Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2013, 09:23:28 PM »
Who forced you to take an airport in Algiers?

When you start your airline, you can base anywhere in the world, as you choose : I suspect that some foul-up has occurrethed...

Secondly, the system follows real world practice, in that nobody was allowed to base outside their own country (couple of historical exceptions aside) until 'open skies' policy were enacted in some regions : Africa not being one of them. So, why blame the 'system' for being realistic in that aspect?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 09:26:53 PM by brique »

Offline Sami

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2013, 09:31:04 PM »
Nothing "flawed' there. As mentioned, it is the real way.

See the manual for information.
http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Manual/Office/Bases/
http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Manual/Routes/Freedoms/

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 09:32:55 PM »
Sorry, but you knew that from your start, that makes basing such an important issue on day one.
There are always two sides of the medal: within EU you face the chance that some bigger airline from all over Europe may choose your airport as a secondary base. You are quite safe of such an action elswhere, you can rule that country as you like.
Having to draw conclusions about wrong decisions you made earlier is not unfair, itīs life ! Next time youīll know better.
Edit: your statements about ORAN are not true. OK, Itīs not a MEGA hub, but is has a pretty good demand to Europe which should keep you entertained for quite a while, and after that you can still fill all inner-Algeria demand of short hauls. Some of your ALG routes are not maxed out, you can still work on that or try to optimize your fleet profile and maximize profits.
I canīt see any reason for complaining. And if youīre bored by that, just BK and search for an overcrowded inner EU base to start from scratch.
BW seems way to easy and empty in the first place, seeing you were able to reach your limits out of ALG this fast. Building up your fleet and finding empty places to fly to will take much longer in a full world.
What about going for some competition and try to push some other airlines out of competed routes by aggressively throwing more seats on the market and play with fares? So much more to try and do except just buying a plane and scheduling it.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 09:53:42 PM by exchlbg »

Offline AIRmoe

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 09:48:28 PM »
Take a chill pill bro! ... I didn't know that, as I'm new to the game and learning my way through it! And speaking of historical facts, Algerian airlines in real life are based in Algeria with focus cities in FRANCE!!! How about you give me a base in Paris? Heck, real life demand says that there is much more than 70000 weekly PAX between Paris CDG and Algiers. What happened there? Also, while we're doing real life here, how about you listen to those people with the PAX demand modelling ideas when they tell you how it is in real life, and you automatically attack them stating how this is not based on real life! A lot of contradiction here!

(I know this game is not based %100 on real life, but at least people like me are adding a variety instead of the usual; people fighting over airports in Europe and North America, saturating the market in the rest of the World. Anyways, no hard feelings).

EDIT: When I based in Algiers, seriously, my aim was to eventually open up a 2nd base in Casablanca, this is why I'm surprised and aggravated. Anyways, it is what it is. My apologies ...
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 09:52:36 PM by AIRmoe »

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 10:04:18 PM »
Iīm perfectly chilled, no reason to get angry, if other people prove you wrong. And please stop talking nonsense , which Algerian carrier has a base in Paris ?
And your remarks about my posts in demand modelling thread show me, that you didnīt get the clue already.
Itīs perfect to make mistakes in the beginning, we all did, but it is not fair, to call game unfair because you didnīt read the rules.
You canīt open up in Canada and have bases in the US, and Algeria-Morocco is perfectly likewise. This all may look like "North Africa" to you, but it is full of perfectly sovereign countries.

Offline AIRmoe

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2013, 10:12:36 PM »
Focus city is the word I'm looking for here, a focus city! An airport that isn't your base where you schedule flights from and to.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2013, 10:26:37 PM »
You already fly to places in France, whatīs your point?
You just complained about the lack of demand to Paris, but just try to analyze which places all over the world you are serving with your airline which donīt see any parallel service/demand in real life ? Without further looking into it, I suppoze most of them. No complaint from your side here.
Game mechanics and real life will always be diverse in case of demand levels, because so many factors donīt play a role in here (connecting flights to name just one, or an alliance network to feed).
What are you planning to do with a "focus city" ? In-game you will always have the chance to do base-destination-base flights, we used to have other possibilities, but that was changed for the introduction of multi-basing. It wonīt come back. So game must have different demand values than real life to keep it playable and world air traffic reasonable.

brique

  • Former member
Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2013, 10:30:16 PM »
Just amused at how the game gets caned for not being realistic enough, then gets caned for being too realistic... and caned again for not being ultra-realistic.

To address your point on pax demand : Go look at the threads and see how many:

 A/ Claim an error in demand exists and provide sources to back it up.

 B/ Claim an error in demand exists and do not provide sources to back it up.

Sadly, its mostly category 'B', including your point above. Honest as your opinion may be, accurate as it may even be, its no more verifiable than the wildest-eyed fantasy and so, seriously, just why should it be accepted as accurate just because you say it is so?

Further, see how many actually reference when this demand is present, like a year, or something : its important, because game worlds stretch from the 1950's to 2019 and the demand figures used in the database have to be relevant across that entire period, adjusted for the exact period of each game-world.

If you genuinely feel a demand figure is inaccurate, go research the true figures, across a range of time, then present them, along with the sources and you'll probably succeed in getting them modified : but just saying its wrong dont fix nothing.

Offline AIRmoe

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2013, 10:43:15 PM »
 ??? I'm not complaining about PAX numbers!!! In fact, I'm loving the game just the way it is! My concern was that because I was based in Algiers I was not allowed to open up a base within the economical region of North Africa except in Algeria! Now in real life, if an airliner wanted to be based in Algiers and in Tunis, they certainly can do so due to the Arab Maghreb Union http://www.maghrebarabe.org/en/ , which is like the European Union of North Africa. You don't see it mainly due to the corruption, poverty, and petty political disagreements. As of late, some common TV channels and Mobile operators are taking advantage of these trade agreements. So theoretically, and according to real life, an airline based in Algiers can possibly open up a base in Tripoli, Tunis, Casablanca ... etc

I rest my case and I'm done, the game is perfect otherwise in my eyes, and I'd like to thank all the people behind this wonderful project. What we pay (credits) for this is peanuts compared to the whole value this game gives back. Outstanding support as well. Thank you Sami and everyone who contributes  :)

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 10:55:51 PM »
Fine to hear that. There are thousands of bi- or multilateral treaties all over the world, but we canīt keep track of those, for obvious reasons.
No international union of states can be compared with EU, because in many cases all members are treated like being a province of one country. And freedom of skies isnīt even modelled for EU until that specific date it was given. World air traffic was , and in some parts is, widely regulated by bilateral treaties, you donīt see that here, you are always free to open up service with everybody as long there is demand. Thatīs one of the freedoms you are free to use and thatīs the reason demands are somewhat "levelled-out".

Offline AIRmoe

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 10:59:11 PM »
A very good point about the bilateral treaties. It's the reason stopping real World airlines like Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar from taking over the World, or at least, more so than currently.

Offline Sami

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 04:05:43 AM »
Arab Maghreb Union

Not the same thing as EU in regards of airline traffic rights. Economic union or such coalition does not mean free air travel automatically. (see the manual). Or if this is such a union that allows also full cabotage rules to any foreign airline in the region, then sources and data is needed since you again refer to "real life" there....- (some tv station co-operation is a totally different thing. )

There are different minor treaties in between countries but most of them are getting too complex to model, since we are talking of time span of last 60+ years too.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 04:11:35 AM by sami »

Offline AIRmoe

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2013, 07:59:44 PM »
Not the same thing as EU in regards of airline traffic rights. Economic union or such coalition does not mean free air travel automatically. (see the manual). Or if this is such a union that allows also full cabotage rules to any foreign airline in the region, then sources and data is needed since you again refer to "real life" there....- (some tv station co-operation is a totally different thing. )

There are different minor treaties in between countries but most of them are getting too complex to model, since we are talking of time span of last 60+ years too.

Air Arabia. Based in Sharjah - UAE. Also operates from bases in Casablanca, Fez, Nador, Tangier and Marrakesh - Morocco, Alexandria - Egypt, and soon Amman - Jordan.

Offline Sami

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2013, 08:22:36 PM »
The ones based outside UAE are "independent" subsidiary companies. (ref. Wiki). The Egyptian one is for example only minority owned by Air Arabia, and no more than 50% in the others I believe.

(so again, not relevant here)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 08:24:42 PM by sami »

Offline AIRmoe

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2013, 08:44:47 PM »
The ones based outside UAE are "independent" subsidiary companies. (ref. Wiki). The Egyptian one is for example only minority owned by Air Arabia, and no more than 50% in the others I believe.

(so again, not relevant here)

Ah I see there, they're "joint-ventures". Fair enough.

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2013, 04:12:04 AM »
You chose it, now live with it.

Offline AIRmoe

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Re: Base Airport choices!
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2013, 05:27:07 AM »
You chose it, now live with it.

Thank you ... It's 2013 btw!  ::)

 

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