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Online Airline Management Simulation
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Author Topic: A bit disappointing...  (Read 3632 times)

ReedME

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2013, 07:04:35 AM »
i am playing now since the start of beginners world and i am curious how the top 3 or 4 airlines are at +100m in value. are these very good beginners or is it their locale airport?

i am still trying to figure out how to get more out of my airline without multiple fleet types that will increase expenses.

Just to answer that, most of those top few OWN aircraft which generally makes your value skyrocket. It's not overly difficult to get to that stage.

KM449

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2013, 09:10:59 AM »
im on rank number 6 in Terms of Pax Count. Rank number one in Terms of previous quarter income before tax. I have played in a lot earlier worlds, but always failed. I do not own a single Aircraft.

I am based in Chicago KORD, Operating around 50 737-400 all leased. The Airport is very well in Terms of demand and there is no other strong Airline in this world. I invested a lot of time in making my flight schedules perfect. The less ground time, the better. All my schedules are planned for nearly 24 hours, all my routes are full supplied, but not over supplied. I did not open routes, where another Player is strong but concentrated on empty routes. I leased all my planes for nearly 7 years or until the next D-Check, that combined with selecting the cheapest used planes, makes Leasing costs minimized.

I think thats all I did, no real secret here. I organized my Airline well and the rest came from it self. My Cash is now so high, because I cant invest it because my staff is always busy arranging new aircraft orders.

ReedME

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2013, 09:56:12 AM »
I wouldn't say there's no other strong airlines in this world. I'm growing incredibly fast despite next to no domestic demand. Playing out of JNB no less. You're in Chicago. Anyone with half a brain can succeed in Chicago :P I think you'll find that because you started with 737s they're quite cheap you were able to expand very quickly. I have a fleet of 30 aircraft with 7 more on order all 767s/777s.


KM449

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2013, 10:16:34 AM »
Im sorry i meant there is no other strong Airline in Chicago...

ReedME

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2013, 11:20:22 AM »
Which is why you're dominating :P you're doing well though :)

BD

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2013, 02:40:01 PM »

I think it's actually really helpful to the newbies to actually be presented with some challenges and get a better insight into the full game worlds. By seeing the experienced players and their methods in play they can learn a thing or two. So that when they play a full game they're more prepared for the LHR shuffle or maybe they realise that 9/10 players go to the top 20 airports so the newbie begins to look elsewhere for a home creating a thoughtful newbie.
From a newbie...

LHR shuffle (or other insights) is not immediately apparent to a newbie who is concentrating on growing an airline.  By the time one has had enough game time observations to have a correlation with one's own experience, do we "figure it out" - by then, perhaps too late.  If one could clearly identify the "experienced" players from "beginners" we could perhaps distinguish the roots of success, but at the beginning, not recognizing anyone, it is impossible to discern the differentiating strategies that win.

It seems the prudent start would be to grab as many long haul routes as possible with an (perhaps any in Beginners World) aircraft with very large capacity.  The profit is outsize and can fund the rest of your growth.  Starting at anything less seems to put one behind (even though it could still be a sustainable airline).  This leads to all kinds of implications down the road...speed of aircraft acquisition - used, positioning in production schedules - new, availability of bases to extend to, slots availability.

I shied away from the seemingly uber expensive vlarge aircraft initially, but when I pulled the trigger (after feeling I was generating enough cash to fund) I was shocked at the profitability they achieved relative to the price of the purchase/lease.  I takes a ton of Q400s with their accompanying slots (which get more expensive later), and landing fees, etc to even come close to one route flying 300 or so pax.  Similar effect for 737s or similar sized, just not as pronounced.

All the tutorials and guides for beginners one can find miss this fundamental fact.  This alone probably explains 75% of the difference between the super valued airlines and the rest of us in BW.

I don't think one should ban experienced players from BW, nor should they be stopped from basing in large airports.  Instead, if the idea is to experiment with new strategies, why not put a factor on all costs, prices, demand allocation, etc. to be reflective of a slightly more challenging world they would face elsewhere?  

Not sure where it should end up, but it might be something like a factor of 10% (for example, might be too low in light of LHR shuffle)...a 10% premium on purchases/leases, 10% reduced allocation of the demand/ticket prices have effect of being 10% more expensive, 10% more on maintenance/marketing/staffing/etc..  Perhaps some of it scales based on route type, number of passengers flown (e.g. LHR=50% premium, VSHR=0%).

« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 02:42:36 PM by BD »

Steviem

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2013, 03:33:17 PM »
Hello to all,

First time poster here, I joined 3 games pretty much at the same time to learn many things; these being BW, DOM & MA and have only been playing since mid to end of July

BW is interesting as it teaches you many things, and compared to the bigger games is a bit gentler as it were, however the larger games are quite intense, but much more interesting regardless of the outcome. I feel I am reasonably success but still linger in the middle of the stats. But it is here I learn and compare myself to the other big players and try to understand what it is they do to get themselves there

My DoM game was interesting insofar as I found a large airport quite early in the game (Soviet) with no one in it and then promptly squandered my chances, this after previously going bankrupt in the US. On my second attempt in Russia, I am sure that I was targeted by not 1 but 2 much larger players and suffered badly, not because of them but because of the choices I made. Once again bankrupt. Now I could argue that I was targeted outside of the rules, but in reality this is not true, I did not have the experience to cover what was happening to me. Many lessons for me here

My MA game is altogether different, bottom feeding and slowly but surely nibbling away and taking share away from some of the very large players discussed in this topic. This makes it more changeling and every time I suffer, I learn, and I think this is what its all about. Not to take away others success, but to reflect on the mistakes I have made. The only thing it makes me is more determined.

Given this the BW is one where it is for me to learn, personally I do not feel that I do not have a chance due to bigger players "taking the prime spots", but more me for to learn how to eek out an existence, and then to build on it. I do not feel discouraged or limited owing to the fact that bigger players are far outweighing my own performance, more that I need to learn more how to do the same. I am sure that all of this has a "sweet spot" which time and experience will eventually reveal itself, provided I make the correct choices. I just need to learn them

This game is a reflection of life and a simulation of that, and so the human nature will always be more competitive, more ambitious and so it is reflected in these games. That's why I paid my money and joined, to learn and to have fun, which is exactly what I am doing,

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth and thanks for the great entertainment and enjoyment I receive by doing this
 Stevie

Offline Teadaze

  • Members
  • Posts: 777
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2013, 05:32:34 PM »
I have played this game for less then 1 year and would like to throw something in...

Back then the old Beginner world when I first started, there are many "old" player will come in and dominate huge airport by either not play for half a year(legit) or somehow manage to sneak in an alt account(illegal but very hard to track), a complete new player with a new registered account unless teach by someone they know should not know what is the proper plane to run, doing 7 day schedule and many more way to run efficient airline. So by the sounds of it situation has been quite similiar back then and now.

I was paired up in a popular airport(NRT i recall) and against one of those experienced player, long story short I was beaten quite badly to the point I was about to bk until I joined an alliance and gain knowledge I will never know unless someone tell. And to be honest these are info that is quite hard to explain in a guide because you will need to experience the problem first. After fixing the airline I can go on autopilot and have 100+ widebody on lease without schedule and did not bankrupt, it shows how forgiving beginner world is.

Coming out of the beginner world and start up in DOTM I had a nice start, but I went belly up after going against another top tier player which in the end got top CV in that world. Once again I found out I am missing knowledge/experience that I will not pick up from Beginner world or if I never go against an experienced player. Some player may also be willing to teach you a thing or 2 after you bk... or even extend an invitation to their community.

At the same time I started in JA in yyz, i dominated the area but the lack of knowledge of fleet transition and lack of demand/fuel spike drive me to the ground without too much competition.

I restarted in mid DOTM in MCO and in the end did quite decent when the world end.

Beginner world provide a good starting ground for player who just finish their demo world. Still trying to understand how to get 7 day schedule, demand filling and fleet composition(stuff that you will find on a beginners guide), or to understand the characteristic of the airport(believe it or not there is NO cookie cutter on how to start an airline, each airport/time frame is different). And I think sami's change is working quite well. They are never meant to be competitive and aiming for the top as they mean nothing. I would also say by all means if you manage to start in a new beginners world go to one of the top airport and hopefully you see an experienced player there ripping you a new one. The earlier you learn why you fail, the more prepare you will be in the real world. Unless you plan to run this gimped beginner world for the rest of your career without achievement, alliance and have to restart every 2 months. Disallowing active member joining beginner world will not help the new player in long term.  

Lets say you if beginner world restrict all the experienced player and you manage to got hold on LHR or ORD or other top airport and manage to run a decent airline. At most you will become good in Beginners world. You will be very unlikely to be able to join JA/DOTM/MT and expect to win at LHR or any top airport, you will more then likely be pushed out within the first 5 years if not faster... which result to exactly same if not worse outcome should you meet them in Beginner world.

So far the old world model you will need to start when the game world begin in order to compete for top spot. I don't know if that will still be the fact in future world as sami predicted. But I think it will hurt more if you dominate beginner world because you did not match up against someone who is experienced/good(remember beginner world setting is easy) and then thinking you can do the same in DOTM/JA/MT and then get raped by the first sign of trouble.

Also apply for a mentor, and bomb them with any questions. They signed up to hope there are new blood in AWS and to compete/join in later world. They will be able to spot what you may have gone wrong and tell you what not to do.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 06:25:53 PM by Aoitsuki »

BD

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2013, 11:09:05 PM »
...
Back then the old Beginner world when I first started, there are many "old" player will come in and dominate huge airport by either not play for half a year(legit) or somehow manage to sneak in an alt account(illegal but very hard to track), a complete new player with a new registered account unless teach by someone they know should not know what is the proper plane to run, doing 7 day schedule and many more way to run efficient airline. So by the sounds of it situation has been quite similiar back then and now.
...
So far the old world model you will need to start when the game world begin in order to compete for top spot. I don't know if that will still be the fact in future world as sami predicted. But I think it will hurt more if you dominate beginner world because you did not match up against someone who is experienced/good(remember beginner world setting is easy) and then thinking you can do the same in DOTM/JA/MT and then get raped by the first sign of trouble.

Also apply for a mentor, and bomb them with any questions. They signed up to hope there are new blood in AWS and to compete/join in later world. They will be able to spot what you may have gone wrong and tell you what not to do.
All very true!  I have been with AWS for a few months now.  I found an excellent mentor and now know about 7-day scheduling (necessary for efficient long haul, incl tech stops) and a slag of other things extremely helpful to know, but not covered by the manual.

I've spent a good bit of time researching the forums too, especially out of respect for the mentor's time, but also because nuances are to be found that are not necessarily captured in your communication with a mentor.   Also, one can observe that even long time players sometimes disagree on some (sometimes significant) points in the game, since the algorithms behind the AWS are not published nor readily transparent in game play.  New players can go far with the forum information alone.  The downside to the forum information is that AWS is not standing still, as new features are added over time, rendering some information obsolete.

I agree that anyone who feels that their dominance in BW shows superior skill or gamesmanship is fooling themselves, but it does demonstrate that they can make a good go of it in the more challenging worlds.  I had a top airline running in prior BW that finished with $300M+ CV.  I hardly touched it after initial setup.  I set it up for testing various items before I did them in JA.  Not saying I'm good either...In JA, I have BK'd three times (so far), for comparison.   :laugh:

IMHO, running a more modest airline in JA is more interesting than being top 10 in BW, plus it is less "pressure".  I'd encourage noobs to not be afraid after a couple of goes at BW to jump into one of the other worlds.  No shame in BKing, several rather large airlines have in JA.

Offline LemonButt

  • Members
  • Posts: 1895
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2013, 11:37:43 PM »
That's because newbies go to BW and setup shop at LHR, ORD, ATL, etc. and they pwn.  When they step into the regular worlds the experienced players setup shop there and end up eating their lunch.  This is a strategy game and you've got to compete with strategy--something BW is lacking.

inlaidminatour

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2013, 07:57:22 PM »
What about a testing scenario to allow people who want to test their new strategy but same conditions as the beginner server?

I have been trying to play for a while but have dropped out after a couple of weeks due to the higher players...

Just a thought.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2013, 12:34:54 AM »
BW is already open for everyone, also if you already played some other worlds for just that purpose.

Offline 11Air

  • Members
  • Posts: 433
Re: A bit disappointing...
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2013, 09:51:44 AM »
As a beginner in BW I looked for a good base. LHR - High ground costs, landing charges etc. No place to start an airline, and the other Euro 5's seemed similar. So 4's. I found Nice because I like it, have flown there as v.world pilot and Real World Pax. Even before you get off the plane the service vehicles have no roofs. What a great way to advertise your weather. (Lots of rain roofs in the hanger of course I expect).
So LFMN was vacant. Big plus, and has access to small airports for small planes, Euro 5's for 737's to get me started.
The learning curve, finding which airport to serve. Well I've only dumped two routes as simply not worth it though this may be a game factor. Most slowly built up Pax Nos if I cut fares enough. Flying to max a/c range didn't work. Changing seat prices to keep %'s over 60 and below 95. Maybe just the Game Mech's again but even 30% load factor keep's a rented a/c flying until the pax demand builds.
I also got a spread of a/c. C208's for local work and to sus out regional links, ATR's to exploit the better ones and sus out the 5's, and 737's to start on the Continental 5's.
ATR42's were great for testing new routes, ATR72's for developing the better ones (as extra or replacement a/c), and the 737's after that.
A300/310 are my next experiment looking to increase range for Intercontinental Cash Cows but I've got 6 game-months before I can set up another Base. That reminds me, I have a home base until I'm attacked, I can pop into a 5 as a new Base and duck out again if it doesn't work for me.
I'd be interested in chatting 1 to 1 on these ideas with anyone experimenting with other methods.
 

 

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