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Author Topic: Unfair for late comers!  (Read 6321 times)

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2013, 11:41:52 PM »
and, what's the disappointing thing about that is, that the MD-11 line is always closed when I made enough money to buy one :-( ... anyway, that's an other story...

The MD-11 is nearly the end of its useful economic life span. MD11s golden years are the 1990s.  In less then 5 years, MD11 users will be BKing against 777 and A330/340 users.

Sure, at this point in time, its a good alternative to waiting for better aircraft. There's routes open and competition between everyone hasn't reached a feverpitch yet. Once the game moves into the "survival of the fittest" part, MD11 users will understand why there the only ones who operate the aircraft.

Talentz 

Offline meiru

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2013, 11:48:24 PM »
Yeah, you may be right... in this game world... but, the MD-11 (as well as other aircrafts here) are a little bit wrong simulated. Some values aren't that bad in real life. I've got a lot of data about that. And I think, that the 747 is also not that bad ... don't understand, why it's so hard to sell it. Seems, that an A380 is simply "cooler" ... why ever.

Offline Bandyman

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2013, 08:09:46 AM »
I BKd about 4 times before I realised there is more to the world than Europe, There are plenty of airports in the world with 30 to 90 PAX that are up for grabs and plenty more with only 10 to 12 which are good for my Pilatus to take over :)

Offline TerryMcKenna

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2013, 12:50:16 PM »
I agree with you Bandyman. There are too many players here who think that because they are the biggest they are the best, but in fact all they have done is 'joined the dots'.
Operating a smaller niche type airline offers a far greater challenge. It is far more interesting and really tests your skills in a more realistic airline environment.
It is a far greater challenge to do Nadi with one competitor than Heathrow with ten.
My advice to anyone joining now is to look for a grade 3 or 4 airport and enjoy the challenge
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 01:20:50 PM by TerryMcKenna »

Fruityping

  • Former member
Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2013, 03:55:38 AM »
I joined the game early on the day of release and my airline is still going on,not sure how. It has been a challenge but restricted to only a small airline due to those who bought up all the slots and ignored the warnings that they would have received from the game engine. Nothing happens to the slots that are not being used only an automated warning letter to the player.

Maybe they can add a large fine after a week, to force the players to only create routes for the aircraft they have purchased.

But all in all i enjoy playing the game it is a huge challenge but can seem to be unfair at times!  :'(

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2013, 04:08:43 AM »
Just keep in mind, that of 750 players started on the first day, only 106 are still alive, running their original airline.  So starting on the first day is not a guarantee of success.

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2013, 10:33:54 AM »
ignored the warnings that they would have received from the game engine.

There is no way that one could "ignore" the warning of unused slots. If you do not fly them, you lose them.

Offline dmoose42

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2013, 02:44:17 AM »
Fruityping,

I'm sorry that you have not had a more successful airline.  Choosing to base at Beijing, which is one of the most slot restricted airports in AWS can often be a frustrating experience.  I wish you the best of luck in future games, but please refrain from making accusations of cheating unless you have solid evidence. 

As another airline in Beijing, I resent the implication above; but would say that often times what can be the appearance of cheating (a single airline grabbing a lot of slots at once), is typically completely within the rules.  Many airlines have planes on standby that aren't flying any routes just to accommodate situations when other airlines BK or number of slots increase.  Again completely within the rules.

As my fellow alliance members can attest to, they know I have been frustrated at times by competitors being able to grab a lot of slots at once; but at the same time, I have been able to do that as well.  As a result, Pacifica and I both have roughly the same number of slots.  For example, when China One BKed, he was able to get most of the slots.  Such is life.

I suggest that if you want to operate in an airport with less competition, choose a less crowded airport or one in the United States, which typically have ample slots.  Many airlines have been very successful starting in second tier cities (look at Tyne Tees Airways or Suavis Asia Airways).  I hope that you will continue to enjoy AWS - and perhaps pick a starting city that better aligns with your needs next time.  Feel free to PM me, if you would like suggestions for each area of the world.

Cheers,

Dmoose42
CEO Peanut Airlines


Offline TPMP

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2013, 05:33:48 PM »
Just to add my 2 cents, I personally think that joining as a latecomer is quite tough, but it's a great challenge and quite realistic.

I actually started an airline when this world opened in Shanghai and was doing quite well. I quickly lost interest however with that particular airline and decide to give AWS a break. Starting again mid way I think is much more fun!

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2013, 11:03:44 PM »
The player ratio has dropped quite a bit, although I too have had trouble joining. It just may take 2 days to figure something. ;)

Fruityping

  • Former member
Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2013, 07:53:20 AM »
Fruityping,

I'm sorry that you have not had a more successful airline.  Choosing to base at Beijing, which is one of the most slot restricted airports in AWS can often be a frustrating experience.  I wish you the best of luck in future games, but please refrain from making accusations of cheating unless you have solid evidence. 

As another airline in Beijing, I resent the implication above; but would say that often times what can be the appearance of cheating (a single airline grabbing a lot of slots at once), is typically completely within the rules.  Many airlines have planes on standby that aren't flying any routes just to accommodate situations when other airlines BK or number of slots increase.  Again completely within the rules.

As my fellow alliance members can attest to, they know I have been frustrated at times by competitors being able to grab a lot of slots at once; but at the same time, I have been able to do that as well.  As a result, Pacifica and I both have roughly the same number of slots.  For example, when China One BKed, he was able to get most of the slots.  Such is life.

I suggest that if you want to operate in an airport with less competition, choose a less crowded airport or one in the United States, which typically have ample slots.  Many airlines have been very successful starting in second tier cities (look at Tyne Tees Airways or Suavis Asia Airways).  I hope that you will continue to enjoy AWS - and perhaps pick a starting city that better aligns with your needs next time.  Feel free to PM me, if you would like suggestions for each area of the world.

Cheers,

Dmoose42
CEO Peanut Airlines



wow slow down chief!!!
I am sorry that you feel that i have made accusations of cheating but in no way has my post mentioned this!!!
I am stating ways in which the game could be improved....
hence making it a better experience for all users.
would you agree?

although what you have stated indeed confirms my point, I thank you.
I enjoy the challenge of large airports and detest the point you made and i quote:

"I suggest that if you want to operate in an airport with less competition, choose a less crowded airport"

I believe competition is healthy! and have no angst about starting in a large city with many competitors. I seem to be doing o.k. while learning more about the game as we go along which i assume you have done before me.
No harm in learning about the flaws and using them to an advantage! I would do the same as would others in that position, it is perfectly legal doing what you have done.

Apology accepted....

Fruityping

  • Former member
Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2013, 07:59:12 AM »
There is no way that one could "ignore" the warning of unused slots. If you do not fly them, you lose them.

I respond by saying when i tested this, my routes did not simply get returned they remained with the airline. I received the warning over and over yet nothing happened!
Try it....

Offline SAC

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2013, 12:04:54 PM »
I respond by saying when i tested this, my routes did not simply get returned they remained with the airline. I received the warning over and over yet nothing happened!
Try it....

Your test went pear shaped then...try it again...I assure you that you are wrong ! 
...it's not over until I say it's over

Offline dmoose42

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2013, 02:23:17 PM »
Yes, fruityping, there must have been a mistake in your test, as you definitely lose slots that are not flown. 

As for you been excited about the fact that I said that you implied that other airlines in Beijing were cheating, let me remind you that you posted the following:

"due to those who bought up all the slots and ignored the warnings that they would have received from the game engine."

buying slots and not using them is against the game rules, therefore cheating is exactly what you insinuating and now you are running away from it.  Fine.  No big deal.  Just next time, if you don't want people to think you are accusing them of cheating, then all I am saying is to please use more precise language.  If you were trying to post a bug (i.e., that nothing happened to slots), then it should have been in the bug report.  If you were saying the rules should be changed, then you should make a feature request.

I think there is generally agreement that the current slot allocation system (first come, first serve) has its challenges; however, I think we are all struggling to find a better method.  However, calling it a flaw and stating that other airlines are taking advantage of it again implies something unfair about it, when in fact, you have the same exact opportunity as anyone else, the current system is behaving as Sami intended, and no game rules were broken.

I am glad you are enjoying the challenge and i hope you continue to enjoy AWS.

Cheers,

dmoose42

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2013, 03:34:57 PM »
In regards to slots, the game currently starts at 50% and gradually grows to 150% over time.  There used to be a point not too long ago where the game started and ended with 100% slots and it was ridiculous.  If you need slots, just wait a few days and they'll start popping up. 

Offline dmoose42

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2013, 06:08:20 PM »
Generally that's true - although in this case (at PEK) there are only 33 and only 3 have appeared in the last ten game years so that part is definitely slow going.  For airports in other parts of the world (and particularly the US) many large airports have many more slots (often double or triple that number).

Online connorc17

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Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2013, 02:21:33 AM »
Just butting in, since I'm also based in PEK. On my end of things all the slots I've grabbed have been used right away, or returned. I've had more or less 50 planes on the ground for quite some time. Also the slot situation at PEK is the worst I've ever seen it. I've based here before and it seemed to grow at a steadier interval. However maybe the T3 opening is factored in? Who knows... However it's come to the point where I've really lost interest in this game world. 33 slots for an airport that's handling 66 million, I mean come on....

Fruityping

  • Former member
Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2013, 04:47:41 PM »
dmoose42,

Read into my post what you will but that truly is what i did not intend.
Putting egos aside, i was purely responding to a post that had been posted, "Unfair for late comers!" I stated challenges that i faced during my journey in the game in order to help others that may face the same challenges.
you maybe reading to much into it my good sir!!

If i thought there was a case of a player/s cheating i simply would attempt to contact admin or creator and clarify what had been done before posting any such thing.
I then would simply state who the cheats are by name/company in a post if i could be bothered! or i simply would not play the game.
In my case nothing had come to my concern in that way.

I would not beat around the bush like you have suggested that i had
Quote:
"As for you been excited about the fact that I said that you implied that other airlines in Beijing were cheating, let me remind you that you posted the following:"

"due to those who bought up all the slots and ignored the warnings that they would have received from the game engine."

No names or cities was mentioned in my post implying "cheating", it was you who brought the matter of "cheating" up.
Simply researching ones name and airline in which base city they belong and implying something that is not implied is a mistake.

I am not out to defame you or anyone, the cheats seem to be able to do that to themselves in the cyber world without me!!

In the case of route hoarding and maybe i should put this in bug section of the forum.
I received 6-8 or maybe more route warnings which was close to game beginning before i did anything to the route. Maybe admin can check logs? More than happy to report it to bug section.
I am a little peeved at myself for not keeping the emails to this day as i simply was testing for myself and not for bug purposes.
If i was to know that i would be in a situation like this then i would have kept all emails.... #note to self keep all emails#
I am not sure if changes had been made to game since then to amend this, maybe they had or not.
Even today i am not sure how many warnings you receive until it is taken back but i am in the process of testing that now and hope that you are correct.

I will next time be more vigilant in my responses to posts.

Happy Gaming!

Regards

Fruityping.

p.s Still enjoy the game!!! 8)


 

BD

  • Former member
Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2013, 07:38:12 PM »
...It becomes almost unplayable for late comers who shell out some credits to join the party only to suffer due to the wrath of the early adopters who take up all the slots and big base airports. The rich keeps getting richer and the small is bound to fail. Unfair competition. ...
I managed to be one of the first on the new Beginners World.  What luck, I thought.

Then, a day or two later (real time), some %$^% decided to also base in a 95% airport.  Why not, free world right?  

Except there were airports of same/similar size that were wide open elsewhere.  He proceeded to fly the same routes as me.  So I bankrupted and started over again in the same city with different routes.  Suffice to say, I was not happy and decided to bankrupt again and start in a new city of similar size, where nobody was operating - a ~90% airport.

It wouldn't be a problem had the dude either stuck to his own routes or just start in the new world in one of several other open cities/airports.  

I can understand later in the game having a competitor open a new base, or a new entrant starting in the same city because they see several open routes yet unexploited.  For instance, right now, I do see some cities for adding a base that are occupied, yet have several sizable routes open that out number even the demand for open routes in unoccupied cities.  Naturally, the "economics" make sense to settle a new base in the occupied airport - I have my eye on two+ after having analyzed this over a few days in BW (i.e. I'm salivating over the open routes, but do expect that we will have to compete on some routes, if for nothing more than to keep my utilization up).

Anyway, I don't propose changing any rules, but will have to note that there are certain players who cannot help themselves, as they go for the throat, even in BW.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 07:41:47 PM by BD »

BD

  • Former member
Re: Unfair for late comers!
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2013, 03:29:21 PM »
Thought I'd give an update from Beginner's World, per a recent encounter...

I managed to grow (precariously) my airline to >100 aircraft...some lessons learned along the way for sure.  The airline was generating significant weekly profit and I amassed enough afford expansion to another base (I had not yet exhausted all routes at current, but do have nearly 70% share there, and the best ones are gone).  There was a large airport that the single airline there was not taking full advantage of all the still open routes, growing very slowly, but must have a huge cash balance according to company value figures.

A number of airlines have been active in expanding their bases.  So, I figured I'd better jump before anyone else takes the one (of four I had been eying).  Pulled the trigger.

About a game week later, one of the biggest airlines adds a new, third, base in the same spot.  And he seems to directly target routes by the first airline at that airport, and some of mine (I've been almost entirely focused on routes not run by the first, mostly all wide open ones to max profit).

Ok, all's fair in competition right?

Well, except for the fact that in the so called "Beginner's" World, the guy running this third arriving airline was registered on AWS back in 2010...hardly a beginner.   >:(

The aggressive guy referred to in my previous post was registered in mid-2012 - also enough time to be past the beginner stage (I'd expect).

I hope these guys feel good dominating in an "easy" world meant for true beginners and for "experimenting".  They seem to savor the challenge in that.   ???

« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 03:39:58 PM by BD »

 

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