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Online Airline Management Simulation
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Author Topic: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?  (Read 1440 times)

Offline Atlantische Zeiler

  • Members
  • Posts: 81
What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« on: December 18, 2012, 12:16:22 AM »
Is there ANY way to make money on say... the Pilatus PC-12? Is that physically possible?

Offline Sanabas

  • Members
  • Posts: 2161
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2012, 01:02:52 AM »
When the staffing numbers are better balanced, then yes it should be.

Right now, it would be extremely difficult. Would probably be doable if wages were cheap enough, and competition was non-existent enough to let you heavily inflate prices.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2012, 01:36:07 AM »
I donīt see any point in using these aircrafts in this Sim.They hardly fly in any overhead costs.
In real life those planes are used by general aviation. There are only a few specialized airlines using them on a fixed schedule, mostly to serve some exotic airfields in the middle of nowhere, subventioned by governments.

brique

  • Former member
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2012, 04:11:18 AM »
In raw terms, sub-20's are rather crippled by the AWS model, which does mean they are only viable operating from low-cost airfields in low-wage economies. If you are going for a sort of 'role-play' airline, such as an island-jumper based in some remote corner, then they do have a place in the game. As mentioned above, if you can run them hard, jack prices and avoid competition on their routes, they can cover their costs : but on their own, they wont really build you a mega-carrier.

Prior to the pricing model changes, the basic wisdom, correctly, was to avoid them... but now,  in the right conditions, they can work.

SirPulok

  • Former member
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 10:34:41 AM »
I bought a PC12 and flew it on routes that had low demand (about 10-15pax/day). They worked well had 100% LF and were making a profit (about 300-600$ per route).

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 01:15:35 PM »
Please donīt take those green numbers in your line management as profit ! Itīs easy to fill up 12-seaters 100% and of course those numbers will be green. (By the way , filling seats 100% is always an indicator your fares being too low) ,but did you analyze the costs of your company, as there are staff, training ,rent ,insurance, leasing, refinancing,insurance, slot costs etc.etc. ?
Iīm sure after deducting all those costs from their "profits", you are loosing money !

Budjet

  • Former member
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 05:27:52 PM »
I think a lot of it is to do with roleplay but also it's great if you literally run out of high and medium demand routes out of a base, to prevent boredom.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2013, 02:44:54 AM »
Thatīs more like it, Definitely no plane for a beginner or any startup-airline.If you are looking desperately for some costs to lower income and avoid paying taxes, they are great.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 02:49:05 AM by exchlbg »

brique

  • Former member
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 03:53:54 PM »
Just adding to this older thread : currently (in BW#19) I'm running some 9-seater Pilatus 12/45's out of POM in Papua New Guinea, just for a lark. Its probably the ideal location; low wage, some decent demand close enough to squeeze in as many flights per day as possible.

Its a tough start-up : took 5 months to show a green week as default pricing just doesnt earn enough to cover overheads : its only now RI is maxed and CI has grown to 30 that I'm able push most prices up to the default+50% level that its making a consistent profit, even on B-check weeks : any higher pricing (above +50%) just pushes loads way down to 60-70%, so theres a definite tipping point where the pax flee in their masses.

Just running through the first batch of c-checks and the cash reserves are holding up okay : 8 aircraft in the fleet now, all owned, as lease payments would be too much for the cash flow to bear : that said, the added CV of owned planes does give enough loan facility to swoop on cheap bargains in the market, the last two planes bought in were well under-priced, and should provide enough extra revenue to cover the added costs of the loans.

BW is a soft setting, and its only because of the relatively high start-up funds that I could get the necessary critical mass of aircraft to cover overhead and start making profits, as each aircraft, even with LF's of 90-95% at def+50% pricing struggle to generate enough revenue to expand at more than a snails pace.

It is fun though... :)

SuriProf4

  • Former member
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 05:39:18 PM »
i think for some locations it would make sense. but i believe i read a few threads that stated the issue with operating those aircraft (or regional operations) are the staffing & pricing model built into the sim.

i am tempted to tryout such a plan once i figure out how to really play the sim.

brique

  • Former member
Re: What is the point of less than 20 Pax. planes?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 06:15:52 PM »
Indeed, the major issue is staffing levels, for all small aircraft, which is a known element and may be addressed in the future. Pricing was an issue under the old model, where any rise above a few % caused mass pax defection : under the new system, which does allow significant price increases, you can push your revenue up to compensate for higher per-aircraft costs.

In DOTM, I'm running a 13-hull E110 fleet quite successfully, started with the 15pax version, now with the 20pax model. Successful enough to have been able to buy 20+ E120's which are leased and thus adding more income. But again, its being able to over-price seats (and fill them!) that enabled that.

I doubt a 9-seater fleet would be possible in a 'real' game with harder economic settings and lower start-up cash (as Sanabas's experimental outfit showed) : but trying the model out in BW gives some practical knowledge of the problems that would have to be overcome.

 

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