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Author Topic: [-] Spare plane  (Read 996 times)

Flight2071

  • Former member
[-] Spare plane
« on: December 17, 2012, 07:52:58 AM »
If it is possible, it should be interesting to make an improvement called “spare planes”. The player can dedicate automatically some planes to no stop the flights during the C & D Check.

It could be very important for C-check: if you have 20 B737-400, you will lose 280 flying days, but if you have a plane more and you can program it as “spare plane” you can manage C-check no stopping the flights and the money income.

Of course, you need a plane for each family you have and probably it is necessary to separate C and D checks.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 05:53:47 PM by sami »

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 09:50:52 AM »
This was discussed many times before, not planned to be implemented.
For a reason: a spare plane per fleetgroup for covering the checks would only make sense if you would have it flying throughout the year.
That means you need any plane  (and just one) being in C-(or D) check at any given day of that year.That would additionally mean you would
have to plan c- and d-checks back to back, meaning you need an additional planning page for C-and D-checks, where you can decide at which day they have to happen.And you would need a calender covering eight years to plan ahead for D-Checks ! And for lining up check dates you will have to perform them earlier than they are really due,thus having more checks than needed over the years.
Maintenance actions are kept now under a very simple routine to keep game playable also for players with limited online-time.
So itīs possible to have your weekly a-checks all on one day, despite of room and staff resources.
Besides routes not being flown there are no additional consequences regarding RI,CI,slots.
It would only be useful for players having the exact amount of airplanes per fleetgroup to be covered by a spare plane.
Sometimes even planes of the same fleetgroup would not be able to fly routes of another plane of that fleetgroup, because they would not fit
into restrictions, like range or runway requirements or would trigger overcapacity warnings.
Sounds things will stay the way they are, with you being free to do replacement service manually.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 01:20:35 PM by exchlbg »

Offline schro

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  • Posts: 3068
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 03:31:49 PM »
Once you airline is a bit larger, the C/D checks are really irrelevant to your day to day operation. You won't even notice the route not getting flown for a few weeks in your P&L.

exchlbg is referencing a pool scheduling concept/feature request (that I think is still open), where you would set a schedule, then assign a subset of planes to fly that schedule. It does add a rather significant amount of complication though...

OskarKosznicki

  • Former member
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2013, 02:16:41 PM »
Well, I would like to dig out that topic :)

I think the spare aircraft would be really nice addition. Dont know what the heck are the problems exchlbg was talking about.
Maybe there was no option of automatic C/D checks when he wrote it ;)

Just take a look on this idea:

When buying/leasing aircraft You can check the box called "spare aircraft".
If this happen, Your demand for personnel will not increase except "Technical services and maintenance". The rest should not be increased, cause all the crew is ready - they are just working on the different plane.

So, how should the "Spare" aircraft work? Just like in reality.
It just stays at the parking, and when it's needed it takes the flights of the other aircraft for the day.

1) If some aircraft has a scheduled B check for that day, the aircrafts are swaped. Spare aircraft is beeing scheduled for the flights, while the aircraft on B-check, is now moved to "Spare" pool. After the B-check is completed, soon You will have some other aircraft going for a B-check. So the just maintanced aircraft will go back to scheduling, and so on. This would be almost like in real companies.

2) Of course bigger the check, higher the priority. If there is a D-check planned on the next day, the spare aircraft will first be switched with this one. If there is no D-check, it will try to swap the scheduling with any aircraft that has C-check planned for tomorrow, and so on.

3) Would be a nice addition, to also reduce the cost / increase the time between checks if the plane is on the 'standby'. Like f.e. (every 2 days on the parking stand counts as 1 day to check date. Could be easily implemented - for every consecutive 2nd day as a "spare aircraft" all checks are postponed by one day in the aircraft details.)


Relatively easy to implement, realistic, and easy to use also :)

Go for it, please! :)

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2013, 02:20:14 AM »
If you donīt have any clue what I am talking about, then try re-reading or enjoy the help of a calculator.
You donīt even need that to find out that an airplane sitting around on tarmac is lost money, and I will try it a second time:
As long as this aircraft isnīt flying the routes of other planes in maintenance for the biggest part of the year, itīs economically senseless.
To introduce an automated process, where "spare" aircraft automatically take over the tasks of those in maintenance would only make any sense, if
-all aircrafts are completely identical.In any other case you will have to do a new schedule.Different model of same fleetgroup might need more runway to take off or canīt make the distance to destination without tank-stop. So no automated process possible.
-maintenance dates are brought up into a continuous process back to back without any two aircraft being in maintenence at the same time and no time without maintenance, because then your aircraft would not fly but sit around thus costing money instead of earning.(Of course I know C-checks can be run on automatic,but to spread their dates out evenly, you must do that by putting every plane into (first) c-check by hand.Since you canīt plan maintenances later than due date without consequences, you only can change to pre-time maintenance dates.But that way is more expensive, because you do more c-checks through life-time on them than to a bird with origin check dates.
Not thinking of D-checks, how many completely identical planes you must use and manually change C-checks for to make this an economical process? more than 20 for a Boeing 737 for example, more than 30 in case of turboprops.
I would suggest you combine deliveries of new/unscheduled aircrafts doing one or more substitute service for aircrafts in maintenance, before giving it itīs own schedule.
The idea of automated scheduling was turned down before, because cases like the above mentioned are too rare. Scheduling stays one of the most important parts of game that will stay with you, no auto-routine planned.You are free though to buy or lease aircraft for whatever service, and if you think, youīre saving money having it sitting around, go ahead and do it ! But donīt sell it as a brilliant idea and donīt wait for an automated service.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 03:12:03 AM by exchlbg »


Flight2071

  • Former member
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 02:33:33 PM »
The true is "AWS is not the real world".

It is an addictive game, but it is too far from the reality.

In the real world a airline cannot stop a route for 60 or 80 days for a D-check.

I am sure that a airline manager will not waste a second of his time in this game.

Never mind, we are playing with planes, but it could be lorries, boats or what you want, but it is not true, it only a game with its own rules that are not real.

The real part is the effort in database of airports and airplanes.

If you put your company in Heatrow first, we will be in the first positions... but if you make a big effort to create a small and good company in a small airport... we cannot grow, sorry it is not real...

Ryanair is the example, they fly in many small airports (they re-discovered them !!!), I tried to do that in Europe World in OVD, the demand out of Spain was ZERO...

So we play, but it is not a simulation, it is a game... the difference is quite clear: a simulator recreate real conditions. Flight Simulator was/is good for this reason...

PD: I don't like RYANAIR
PD2: I am critic, I hope they will not delete this post.
PD3: Soon I will be tired of the game and I will retire

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 02:35:32 PM »
How was that entire post even remotely related to this topic? This is the feature requests forum, and not for such general rants. And on such grounds could be deleted as well .. but won't do that as that's not how we operate.

Anyway - in AWS any maintenance does NOT cancel the routes. Consider them simply not being sold for that period (not in schedule).
(And for info, airlines do sometimes have to change schedules or cancel routes entirely due to maintenance. This happened to me recently (lack of planes; they had to cancel several weekly longhaul sectors due to this).
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 02:40:24 PM by sami »

Flight2071

  • Former member
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 09:48:19 PM »
How was that entire post even remotely related to this topic? This is the feature requests forum, and not for such general rants. And on such grounds could be deleted as well .. but won't do that as that's not how we operate.

Anyway - in AWS any maintenance does NOT cancel the routes. Consider them simply not being sold for that period (not in schedule).
(And for info, airlines do sometimes have to change schedules or cancel routes entirely due to maintenance. This happened to me recently (lack of planes; they had to cancel several weekly longhaul sectors due to this).
I agree this is not the correct forum.
If you want we can continue this conversation in a different forum or if you prefer in private messages. What I wait from you is a better vision of the GAME and of the request of the players. NO players = NO Client

brique

  • Former member
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 10:58:20 PM »
may I suggest you take some time out to catch your breath, then go read through the 'requests' forum, beyond the first page, and see how many requests get made each week and just how many get responded to by Sami, either with a comment, but more usually with a link to another thread with the same request. Then read the 'updates' forum, and see how much work is going into re-designing the game UI, incorporating many player suggestions, some being implemented almost by return of post. Just this year has seen a major beta test of new modifications to the game engine, again, incorporating many ideas suggested by the players. Go check the work being done on re-designing the pax demand model, which, incidentally, includes all sorts of ideas on how to make it possible to 'grow' your airport demand, again with input from the players

I've played a lot of online games, too many, perhaps, but this is one of the few where the players can interact with the game designer on a daily basis, where suggestions and ideas are addressed, and if worthy, taken up and added.

Does that happen overnight? Nope, and why should it? How could it? Sami could work 24/7 re-making the whole game to reflect each request ever made, and another 24/7 changing it back due to the next request.

Some-one has to decide which ideas are possible, practical, achievable and still keep a balanced playable game. We call them the designer, usually, and in the end, no matter how much we may love our particular idea, the designer gets to decide. We get to decide if we still want to play but your idea getting knocked back isnt grounds for the rest of us to walk away from it.

So, before you invoke 'the players' in your cause, kindly remember you do not speak for all of us.


exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2013, 09:29:44 AM »
Completely right. In other (expensively bought) games the designers give you a few patches to iron out the worst bugs after start and then very soon donīt give a damn what clients wish or observe being mis-designed, they just stop reacting completely.They start designing a completely new game you will have to buy again which is even worse than the original (SIM CITY).
No sim can reflect reality 100%.You will have to adapt to game reality.If you want to abandon this great game because your great idea was turned down (with good arguments, despite topic was discussed many times before),or you canīt start a MEGA carrier out of OVD,itīs sad, but I say farewell. You are NOT right about players leaving with you because everybody is upset being treated badly as a client.
On the contrary. Most of the players donīt feel just as clients, but participants in a developing project, and chief designer is treating us accordingly.
With the exception of me game management and game veterans are very patient with new members and their observations and requests, and if it was for the 100 th time.


« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 09:32:50 AM by exchlbg »

Offline Andre

  • Members
  • Posts: 1091
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2013, 05:17:26 PM »
I think this topic should be discussed in coordination with a possible charter flight option sometime in the future, which would also call for spare aircraft to be used. But it seems like this thread has gone completely off topic.

Flight2071

  • Former member
Re: Spare plane
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2013, 05:50:23 PM »
may I suggest you take some time out to catch your breath, then go read through the 'requests' forum, beyond the first page, and see how many requests get made each week and just how many get responded to by Sami, either with a comment, but more usually with a link to another thread with the same request. Then read the 'updates' forum, and see how much work is going into re-designing the game UI, incorporating many player suggestions, some being implemented almost by return of post. Just this year has seen a major beta test of new modifications to the game engine, again, incorporating many ideas suggested by the players. Go check the work being done on re-designing the pax demand model, which, incidentally, includes all sorts of ideas on how to make it possible to 'grow' your airport demand, again with input from the players

I've played a lot of online games, too many, perhaps, but this is one of the few where the players can interact with the game designer on a daily basis, where suggestions and ideas are addressed, and if worthy, taken up and added.

Does that happen overnight? Nope, and why should it? How could it? Sami could work 24/7 re-making the whole game to reflect each request ever made, and another 24/7 changing it back due to the next request.

Some-one has to decide which ideas are possible, practical, achievable and still keep a balanced playable game. We call them the designer, usually, and in the end, no matter how much we may love our particular idea, the designer gets to decide. We get to decide if we still want to play but your idea getting knocked back isnt grounds for the rest of us to walk away from it.

So, before you invoke 'the players' in your cause, kindly remember you do not speak for all of us.



I agree with you, but, please,
1) Note that you speak of game not of a simulator;
2) Please check the forum and see the answer I have received about features and bug reports;
3) It was not my idea to say something bad of the game
4) It is my own idea

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: [-] Spare plane
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2013, 05:55:07 PM »
Thread closed:

1) off topic posts in bad tone

2) same issue already requested previously and open thread exists of it

 

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