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Online Airline Management Simulation
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Author Topic: Preventing monopolies  (Read 1133 times)

Petebrown

  • Former member
Preventing monopolies
« on: November 28, 2012, 09:13:48 PM »
Are there any ideas about limiting the amount of slots that one airline can buy at a given airfield. Eg BA owning too many slots at LHR, and being forced to sell to competitors. This currently happens in many countries to prevent airlines becoming monopolies at a given airfield. How about a max of 40/50%. It would hopefully have the same effect as in real life of increasing competition, which can only make the game more fun. Thanks
PS Its a great game Sami

Kumono

  • Former member
Re: Preventing monopolies
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 03:11:34 PM »
I think it will be unrealistic to limit the number of slots an airline can buy at a given airport (airports are also profit maximizer after all). But to prevent monopoly, airports can simply withhold the right to auction off slots when higher bids are available (instead of letting the initial buyer hold them forever).

snowmen10

  • Former member
Re: Preventing monopolies
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 03:52:17 PM »
I think it will be unrealistic to limit the number of slots an airline can buy at a given airport (airports are also profit maximizer after all).

It is not unrealistic to limit the number of slots an airline can buy. In fact a lot of non US non EU airports have these kind of restriction due to political reasons.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Preventing monopolies
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2012, 10:42:51 PM »
This topic was discussed before. Search request archives.
You mention politics.....you are right. But now, please give us an equivalent algorithm to incorporate "politics" into game machine.
There have been various requests for auction systems, all denied for clear reasons, so itīs no way,either.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 10:52:49 PM by exchlbg »

snowmen10

  • Former member
Re: Preventing monopolies
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 08:19:55 PM »
But now, please give us an equivalent algorithm to incorporate "politics" into game machine.


If Curfew can be programmed for the airport needed, I don't see why politics can't. It's whether Sami want it or not. I don't mind staying in the current system and we were simply telling the fact that some countries did have policies like this. If you don't like it fine, but please don't BS me that even hard coding can't be done, thank you.

Offline schro

  • Members
  • Posts: 3065
Re: Preventing monopolies
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 08:44:11 PM »

If Curfew can be programmed for the airport needed, I don't see why politics can't. It's whether Sami want it or not. I don't mind staying in the current system and we were simply telling the fact that some countries did have policies like this. If you don't like it fine, but please don't BS me that even hard coding can't be done, thank you.

He doesn't refer to the coding side as the algorithm, but really the requirements and mechanics of  how politics should work within the game. How do you define politics in a measurable way? How do you quantify the impact of politics on an airline's operation? How can an airline participate in the political process to tilt the playing field?

Describe it first at as high level rules, cause and effect relationships, etc, and from there it can be translated into code....

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Preventing monopolies
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2012, 09:52:33 PM »
Thx for translating my complicated remark. Maybe we will hear now about some interesting ideas, since hard coding is no problem.
I donīt want to "BS" anybody, whatever that means....
Requests should always show a way of how something could be incorporated without loosing whole game balance.
There are problems to be solved and talked over long before hard coding,for example, WHAT should be coded.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 10:05:06 PM by exchlbg »

snowmen10

  • Former member
Re: Preventing monopolies
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 09:02:16 PM »
How do you define politics in a measurable way? How do you quantify the impact of politics on an airline's operation? How can an airline participate in the political process to tilt the playing field?

For example before 2007 there is no direct flight allowed between China and Taiwan? Does it need algorithm behind it?

During a certain period of time a bilateral air transportation agreement is in effect. Maybe it is no limitation (which is the current agreements in AWS) or only certain number of flights allowed in a week as a quota between countries. This can be achieved with to limit the number of flights allowed to a country by one carrier. For example the number of flights are limited between Canada and Tokyo area. This can be done, in AWS, with each Canadian airline is only allowed to operate x number of flights to Tokyo in a week. Does it need algorithm behind it?

I don't think an algorithm can stand behind politics. The only way to have such limitation could be done by history and/or sami's imagination... just like the gas price... Why could gas go up to 1200 in AWS? Does it have algorithm behind it? It's just whether Sami wants to spend time to work on this or not, but this is totally do-able.

I had this idea when everybody was using 757/737 with tech stop on router longer than what 757 should be flying. But seems like Sami used a simpler way to solve this problem, I no longer stand behind on this bilateral air transportation agreement idea. It is a lot of works, but it is certainly do-able. Since the OP brings the slot limitation up and somebody said it is unrealistic, hence my reply. It is realistic, and do-able, but just not gonna happen in AWS. Unless of course there are still misunderstanding of what exchlbg meant by "algorithm".

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Preventing monopolies
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 01:03:42 AM »
By algorithm I mean a special formula which is the base of daily calculating work done by the computer.It seems you still have a slightly wrong picture of how this SIM works. Itīs a one-man show (or a few more in background for help), it is not a full team of specialists running it manually. Nearly everything works on a routine, and only in rare exceptions things are tweaked manually.
But this is exactly what you want: special tweakings for every country,special country combos, for every major airport and so on.
The examples you mentioned were general problems of calculating routines and they were solved by tweaking the general formulas valid for the whole game.And fuel prices are the product of an algorithm which also includes random aspects, so not even Sami knows, when itīs going to spike.Please consider these questions before just stating everything is "doable":
Who is going to work out the thousands of exceptions that exist to reglement aviation business, for past,present and future?
Who is going to tweak the database manually for this mass of information, not thinking of verifying if informations are correct?
Who is going to inform the community of every special regulation that might limit the opening of routes?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 01:18:41 AM by exchlbg »

 

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