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Author Topic: Routes over 7500 nm  (Read 753 times)

unsaid

  • Former member
Routes over 7500 nm
« on: November 08, 2012, 11:00:04 PM »
From my HQ, Bangkok, all North American routes are over 7500 nm. and there are a lot of them. All south American routes are around 9000-9500. I want to use those routes, but I don't know what type of a/c I should get. I have ordered 50 X 787s, but they need a tech stop and tech stops are severely penalised as far as I can see in MT7.
787s are no problem, I can get rid of them if I have to, there will be many airlines who would want them. So, should I get A340-500 HGW, A380 or A350-1000?
A350-1000 seems to be the best option but they are arriving so late in the game.

Offline FlyTO

  • Members
  • Posts: 260
Re: Routes over 7500 nm
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2012, 11:26:40 PM »
It's really hard to make profit/money from these routes but it's not as bad as before because pricing and seat quality plays a bigger role.

I'm using 340-500s for those routes, OWNED, and they make around 400-500k per flight.
I'm also using 767-400ERs for those routes, WITH TECH STOP, and they make 150-200k per flight.
So yes, there is quite a heavy penalty for tech stops with my experience so far.

If you're leasing these ULH Aircrafts, I think it would be near impossible to make any profits because the weekly rate (lease 600k + fuel 350k + other expenses) unless you're flying to target the premium C/F seats.

I'm only flying them cause well, there's nowhere else for my airline to fly that I have not filled demand.

I would also like the A350-1000 but having a fourth fleet type is a HUGE handicap for airlines with 100s and 100s of aircrafts. I made HUGE savings cutting it back down to three fleet types.

Offline LemonButt

  • Members
  • Posts: 1895
Re: Routes over 7500 nm
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 12:51:03 AM »
From my HQ, Bangkok, all North American routes are over 7500 nm. and there are a lot of them. All south American routes are around 9000-9500. I want to use those routes, but I don't know what type of a/c I should get. I have ordered 50 X 787s, but they need a tech stop and tech stops are severely penalised as far as I can see in MT7.
787s are no problem, I can get rid of them if I have to, there will be many airlines who would want them. So, should I get A340-500 HGW, A380 or A350-1000?
A350-1000 seems to be the best option but they are arriving so late in the game.

It depends on demand and competition.  If you can fill an A380, you should use it assuming it fits your fleet strategy.  The biggest struggle is selling enough seats to make a profit due to fuel being the biggest cost on those routes.  If those routes have 200 demand versus 400+, you're better off not even flying them.  If you're not going to use the 787 yourself, I'd cancel the order.  They are cool in real life, but in AWS there are cheaper/better options and the 787 is never really in demand.

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Routes over 7500 nm
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2012, 03:04:35 AM »
Unless you have strong demand (F/C) and own the aircraft... ULH is not something you want to get stuck with.

I fly 8500nm routes and a couple of 7000-7700nm routes. They really don't make too much money. Top end is around 1.2m before company wide costs.

I do fly the 772ER to its max useful range (7760nm) and turn a 250k profit after fuel and lease. However when fuel was in the $1050 range, it was at break even or pretty damn close to it.


Talentz


PS: To shed more light on FlyTO's point of tech vs non tech:

77L vs 773 on 8500nm route; 77L 1.1M to 773s 700k. 773 holding nearly 100 more pax.

Interesting eh?

unsaid

  • Former member
Re: Routes over 7500 nm
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2012, 10:54:25 AM »
The point here is not really making money. In a few game years time, with the a/c i have in order, i will have finished all the long haul demand there is. So i need more routes. I will own all those ultra long planes.
A380s seem to be the best option but i am afraid of frequency penalty. Although there are a few airlijes flying those routes, if there is ever any competition, i will be in trouble. A340-500 hgw is compact and no frequency penalty but it is a fuel burner. A350-1000 arrives too late.
What do you suggest?

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Routes over 7500 nm
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2012, 07:17:46 PM »
Quote
What do you suggest?

Honestly? 77L. It out does the A345HGW. After 7100nm, the 772ER, 77W and 77L outshine all Airbus products till the A380 and A350. With the A380 being relevant if you have enough demand to fill it. However, you have the A330/340 family so that's probably not an option. Some A345s to test the waters would be advisable. Least it will give you an idea of what your getting into. Configure it with a heavy F/C cabin.

Quote
A380s seem to be the best option but i am afraid of frequency penalty. Although there are a few airlines flying those routes, if there is ever any competition, i will be in trouble.

If you have demand for the A380, then that would be the best option. As long as you can fill that big bird, it should be ok. Competition wise, the both of ya'll will be in trouble as neither will turn a decent profit. So the airlines to worry about are the ones sitting on billions with nothing better to do. Steer clear of them and it will work out.


Talentz

unsaid

  • Former member
Re: Routes over 7500 nm
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 09:35:07 PM »
actually demand is around 600 pax for many routes over 7000 nm. There are only a handful airlines utilising those routes and as it is economically senseless, I dont think I will have many competitors, especially in South America.
I think I will go with A380-800. I have in order 50X787 (purchased) , but I guess I can find customers for them.

 

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