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Author Topic: Tech stop turnaround time length 50% instead of 100%  (Read 688 times)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Tech stop turnaround time length 50% instead of 100%
« on: October 13, 2012, 12:06:34 PM »
(I feel I saw this request a long time ago, but I wasn't able to find it via forum and google search. Sorry if it's really double)


In my opinion it's fine tech-stop routes have a ticket price disadvantage and PAX prefer nonstop flights.

But why tech stops need 100% of the turnaround time? The aircraft must not be cleaned, there must not brought new food to the aircraft etc. It's just refueling and maybe a short check by the pilots if still all engines are attached to the aircraft.


Due to this it would be nice if the turnaround time for tech-stops is reduced by 50% and rounded up to the next five minutes, so for example 737-200Adv has 35 minutes turnaround-time, at a tech-stop it would be 20 minutes. (35/2 = 17.5, rounded up = 20 min). No big contribution for this aircraft, but a 747-200 would save a whole hour.


The shortage of 50% would not be boost tech-stops to be overpowered, it'd be just a little increase. On the other hand it would increase the feel of realism.

I also don't think it would cost endless coding time. It's just half the current time + maybe round up (as it is done already as far as I know for each flight).

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Tech stop turnaround time length 50% instead of 100%
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2012, 12:15:55 PM »
Using your example of 737-200Adv.... if only refuelling during turnaround I did some calculations:

From Boeing docs, fuel capacity is 5,160 US Gallons. Assumed fuel transfer rate for turnaround is 300 gallons per minute. This means for a full tank (understandable if flying long routes requiring tech stop) that the fuel transfer would take 17.2 minutes. Given some few minutes for vehichle maneouvering then the figure of 20 minutes is feesible (nothing to say pilot can't do walkaround during refuelling). This is assuming pax on board fuelling, not sure what the situation is nowadays for techstops (guess it depends on airport firefighting, etc. facilities). So in older times when pax had to be disembarked for fuelling, I guess the techstop turnaround would be longer. Kinda arguments for both sides here at the moment. Although I'm happy with current set up for tech stops.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Sami

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Re: Tech stop turnaround time length 50% instead of 100%
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2012, 12:20:37 PM »
Will be considered when turnaround system is updated

Offline schro

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Re: Tech stop turnaround time length 50% instead of 100%
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2012, 04:34:50 PM »
Using your example of 737-200Adv.... if only refuelling during turnaround I did some calculations:

From Boeing docs, fuel capacity is 5,160 US Gallons. Assumed fuel transfer rate for turnaround is 300 gallons per minute. This means for a full tank (understandable if flying long routes requiring tech stop) that the fuel transfer would take 17.2 minutes. Given some few minutes for vehichle maneouvering then the figure of 20 minutes is feesible (nothing to say pilot can't do walkaround during refuelling). This is assuming pax on board fuelling, not sure what the situation is nowadays for techstops (guess it depends on airport firefighting, etc. facilities). So in older times when pax had to be disembarked for fuelling, I guess the techstop turnaround would be longer. Kinda arguments for both sides here at the moment. Although I'm happy with current set up for tech stops.

The flight block time already considers taxi time within the sim, so 20 minutes would be doable, at least with a NASCAR level crew for the pitstop. Some planes also allow fueling from two points if I'm not mistaken, which can speed up the flow rate.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Tech stop turnaround time length 50% instead of 100%
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2012, 04:48:27 PM »
Thanks for considering it, sami!


As some of you guys know, until yet I never flow in an aircraft or worked with them, so I didn't knew it's not normal to keep the passengers in the aircraft when it's refueled. No idea how it is in reality.


I just know from friends working on airports they turn an A330 or a B757 in 45 minutes or so and this includes pax leaving, new pax joining, replacing the catering, clean the aircraft and of course refuel it. So I just thought it must be possible to just refuel in less time. :)


Also I'm sure aircraft can take fuel from several places at the same time, because I saw this at Frankfurt Airport a while ago.

Offline schro

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Re: Tech stop turnaround time length 50% instead of 100%
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2012, 04:57:06 PM »
Thanks for considering it, sami!


As some of you guys know, until yet I never flow in an aircraft or worked with them, so I didn't knew it's not normal to keep the passengers in the aircraft when it's refueled. No idea how it is in reality.


I just know from friends working on airports they turn an A330 or a B757 in 45 minutes or so and this includes pax leaving, new pax joining, replacing the catering, clean the aircraft and of course refuel it. So I just thought it must be possible to just refuel in less time. :)


Also I'm sure aircraft can take fuel from several places at the same time, because I saw this at Frankfurt Airport a while ago.

When I had a techstop on DCA-ATL on an MD88 (in JAX), we were refueled while on board.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Tech stop turnaround time length 50% instead of 100%
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2012, 05:45:40 PM »
I think the rules may be different depending on the country, but in the US you can refuel while on board.  Southwest has most of their flights setup with a "stop" in an airport where pax stay on board during the turnaround.  For a route that is ABCD for example, they will sell tickets for flights that are AC with a stop in B or BD with a stop in C while simultaneously operating flight numbers AB, BC, and CD.  This is part of the reason 80% of Southwest's pax do not have a connection and are "direct" flights.

When it comes to tech stop time, this is going to be dependent on flight profiles that are on the docket for future implementation.  If you have a 3000nm route and fly 2500nm and then a tech stop before the last 500nm, you don't need a full tank of gas for the last leg and refueling is quicker.  This would make it more advantageous for an aircraft to fly as far as possible before making a techstop or even just flying less than full to make it a direct flight.

alfkan

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Re: Tech stop turnaround time length 50% instead of 100%
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2012, 10:25:08 PM »
Back in the 80's I flew LH Europe - Far East many times and we tech stopped in Anchorage or in the Middle East. Being a passenger sitting behind the curtains in the narrow C-class seats we were quite happy to get a chance to stretch our legs, visit the bar(s) and tax-free area. When disembaring we were met by a gang of cleaners with hoovers and empty bags. I think were told to report back to gate within 1 hour or so.

 

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