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Author Topic: Official: Romney a moron  (Read 7558 times)

brique

  • Former member
Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2012, 11:59:27 PM »
Actually, if any-one in that movie theatre had opened up, what would have happened? think about it : stranger walks in and starts shooting : audience member shoots back . you are sitting in the middle : so, tell me, in the dark and panic, which shooter is the threat? Can you tell? bang, another carry-concealed audience member opens up from a third position ; do you know they are self-defending victim, or are they another attacker? its dark, screams, shots, you, sensibly, are on the floor, what do you see? But first self-defending victim also has to decide : is the third shooter  an attacker too? bang, forth carry-concealed, shaking through adrenaline and fear, opens up and, even with a perfect view, nobody can tell who the heck they are shooting at ; now, which are they? but you dont have a perfect view ; you are on the floor, in cover, thinking rationally, trained and aware : 3, 4 people are shooting in different directions at different targets ; so, who do you shoot at? Who is the threat? The first shooter, obviously, but where are they now in the dark theatre? by the door they entered by? Cool, up you pop, ah... is that person sneaking out the door the shooter? or is it some poor victim escaping? its dark, screams, panic, smoke from the discharges, movie soundtrack still blaring loudly. So, in all that, can you seriously know that aiming and discharging your weapon at anyone there is actually going to stop the attack?

edit : and now the police show up : in they come to find what? bunch of folk shooting at each other and so, they now have to decide, in the dark, panic, etc : who is the threat? Who is attacking, who is defending? Who do they shoot? oh look at that guy, waving his Glock : bang.

And, when all the horror is ended and the body-bags are being carried out ; out of 100 witnesses, you'll get 10, 15 different stories, descriptions, timelines. One may well implicate you as an attacker, another guy waving a gun in all the chaos.

The one constant in all these massacres will probably be that the weapons the attacker used are all legitimately purchased, and owned and freely available to the maniac who used them. They get to carry concealed too. They could be stopped on the way to the massacre and the cops would have to let them go on their way. Why not, everyone always says how nobody ever expected them to do such a thing...

Okay, the above screams liberal anti-gun idiot who doesnt understand. Well, wrong, I dont object to guns, I dont object to gun ownership, or their use in sport, hunting or plain old blasting away at the range for the heck of it. But the idea of terrified, panicked semi-trained civilians thinking they can react correctly in such an event and correctly identify the threat immediately before shooting back.. well.. thats kinda scary because we all know that highly trained police and military dont always manage that.



« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 12:05:03 AM by brique »

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2012, 12:12:49 AM »
@brique -- If you have an unloaded gun and point it at someone, it is deadly force and you can go to jail, even if you don't pull the trigger.  The process of getting a concealed carry permit is very tedious.  In North Carolina, I had to attend an 8 hour concealed carry course and pass a written examination.  Then I had to pass a background check and have my fingerprints taken--I actually have a record down at the courthouse now so if my fingerprints show up at a crime scene or on a weapon, guess what?  Civilians with concealed carry permits are not, in large, semi-trained civilians.  If you think someone would carry a gun on them without knowing how to use it properly to ensure that at a minimum there isn't an accidental discharge (Plaxico Burress is an outlier here), then you're crazy.  Would you carry a gun if you had no idea how to use it and weren't properly trained knowing it could discharge and kill a loved one?

While your scenario of shooting in a dark movie theater sounds realistic, it is really extreme.  You are not allowed to use deadly force on behalf of another person unless their life is being threatened.  Knives, brass knuckles, and an assortment of other weapons are also classified as deadly weapons that require a concealed carry permit in NC.  Instead of a movie theater, why not go down the road to Columbine--what do you think would have happened in a bright, well illuminated school if there was a teacher packing that day?

@exchlbg -- I find it ironic you live in Germany.  If every citizen in Germany--including Jews--had a firearm, do you think Hilter would have ever been able to do what he did?  That is the difference between the US and Europe.  In the US, we believe the government should be scared of its citizens--not the other way around.

I don't want to turn this into a gun control thread, but for the record I am a Libertarian and believe in large amounts of both personal and economic liberty.  I voted for a Democrat for my local representative last election cycle, but he was a blue dog and was sensible versus the far left Democratic party we're left with today.  I'm struggling with whether I vote for my candidate (Gary Johnson) or against Obama (Romney).  I'm a firm believe in voting for your hopes instead of your fears, but the stakes are really high this year.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2012, 12:38:53 AM »
Pleeeeze, donīt even start mentioning Hitler, you are really not knowing what you are talking about. You think history would have been different if German civilians would have been armed? Not even the most absurd radicalists over here would have such an idea, itīs, sorry...no ,I donīt say it. Funny that Germany is getting along unarmed having hosted two of the most brutal and repressive regimes of the 20th century.
Nobody started a discussion about giving every idiot a weapon enabling him to shoot the next dictator that strolls along, not even after two world wars and living in ruins for many years. Not even then people felt the need to shoot their way through Berlin.
I donīt know whatīs wrong with Americans that they think they have to fight their own government.And I donīt know whatīs wrong with system and society, that you enforce flooded homeowners to shoot looters. In the big flood of 1962, when half of Hamburg was flooded, police and army patrolled, maybe they arrested a few guys, but didnīt shoot anybody.Maybe Germans are all sissies not being able to loot when they should and not willing to defend themselves and just shoot those goddam bastards. Maybe. Iīm glad being a sissy !

brique

  • Former member
Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2012, 12:43:40 AM »
I was making a scenario as to what would or could have happened at that theatre if gun-carrying was less regulated : do untrained, poorly trained or just semi-trained idiots have guns, most certainly they do. The sorry tales of self-inflicted accidental injuries and deaths that occur every year tell us that. State to state the laws do vary, as does supervision and regulation before and after purchase.

I'm trained in the use of fire-arms, I'm comfortable using them, on a range or in a properly set-up field sport. But that's a world away from a scenario where, in a life-threatening situation, coming out of the blue, as in that theatre, or Columbine, or, as here in the UK, Dunblane, or, waking from deep sleep to find an intruder in my home, I would have to react, and react correctly, in using a firearm. The human body reacts to a physical threat in a way which is quite inimical to correct use of firearms. That's a plain old fact which has bugged the military for decades ; do the research if you wish, but in a combat situation, the majority of (well-trained, remember) soldiers do not aim, they just loose off in the general direction of the threat. A significant number dont even fire. They cant decide where to fire. Its a minority that assess, aim and fire accurately at the actual threat. Thats why snipers manage such high kill rates per round expended ; very highly trained and, noticably, removed from direct bodily threat in the actual fire-zone.

Going back to Dunblane, where a guy went into a school and shot children and teachers ; he was a respected civic figure, his weapons were licensed, he had been checked and approved to own them under the UK's much stricter gun-laws. I do doubt that even if every teacher had been trained, approved and carrying, they could have prevented it. He had the advantage because he knew what he was going to do, they wouldnt know until the bullets were flying and its far too late. Stuff like that happens too fast, its too surreal and its generally over before any of it makes any kind of sense to those caught up in it. Afterwards, we all know what we might have done, but then, we will also know what actually happened as in, going through door A = good, going through door B.. bad move. Then, with 20/20 hindsight, we can say we would have chosen door A and been a hero...

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2012, 02:07:47 AM »
Pleeeeze, donīt even start mentioning Hitler, you are really not knowing what you are talking about. You think history would have been different if German civilians would have been armed? Not even the most absurd radicalists over here would have such an idea, itīs, sorry...no ,I donīt say it. Funny that Germany is getting along unarmed having hosted two of the most brutal and repressive regimes of the 20th century.
Nobody started a discussion about giving every idiot a weapon enabling him to shoot the next dictator that strolls along, not even after two world wars and living in ruins for many years. Not even then people felt the need to shoot their way through Berlin.
I donīt know whatīs wrong with Americans that they think they have to fight their own government.And I donīt know whatīs wrong with system and society, that you enforce flooded homeowners to shoot looters. In the big flood of 1962, when half of Hamburg was flooded, police and army patrolled, maybe they arrested a few guys, but didnīt shoot anybody.Maybe Germans are all sissies not being able to loot when they should and not willing to defend themselves and just shoot those goddam bastards. Maybe. Iīm glad being a sissy !

The point I was making was that if the German population was armed, history would have been a lot different.  You have repressive dictators all over the world with unarmed subjects unable to defend themselves.  America became independent because of armed citizens revolting against the British crown.  Americans think they have to fight their own government because of coercion.  With Obamacare, citizens are required are being fined for being alive and not participating in a health insurance program.  There are several landmark Supreme Court cases where government has taken away the rights of individuals using force.  People want to ban abortion in this country and tell women they can or can't do with their own body--even in the case of rape (as you outlined).  New York City wants to ban sugary drinks larger than 32 ounces from being sold--tell me that isn't an example of government overreach.  It is okay to go to an abortion clinic in New York City and get a fetus scrambled, but it is illegal to smoke in a restaurant, serve transfats, or order sugary drinks over 32 ounces--this is why government is so screwed up and most Americans just want to be left alone to determine their own destiny.

The exact reason the US hasn't had oppressive regimes like Germany, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, etc. is because we believe government should be scared of its citizens.  A government scared of its citizens acts in the citizens' best interests.  When people are scared of their government, the government runs amok and you have power hungry egomaniacs enriching themselves to the citizens' detriment.  When military coups happen in countries like Pakistan, decisions are made based on what is in the ruling party's best interest--not the citizens.  There is a reason Leon Trotsky was ice picked in a Mexico City hotel room and it wasn't because it was in the best interest of Russian middle class.

@brique -- I'm not saying legitimate citizens with concealed carry permits don't do crazy things from time to time.  The whole reason you go to the range is to practice for those life threatening situations, right?  I've never had to use my weapon to defend myself, but I can imagine it is nerve racking.  If a criminal is unarmed though, often times the mere presence of a weapon scares them away.  I've heard stories of burglars in a house clearing out once they heard the homeowner cock his shotgun.  In my concealed carry class, we practiced drawing from a holster and shooting twice at a target 15 feet away.  A bad guy with a knife can cover 15 feet in two seconds, which means if someone is coming at you there needs to be a quick draw/aim/fire response.  I'm not sure what kind of shooting you do, but that is what I've been trained for.  I also have night sights on my Glock, which is kind of a novelty but if I need to aim in the dark I can.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2012, 02:20:51 AM »
"Look, honey, I shot that goddam burglar !"  "Oh, no honey, didnīt you see my message on the fridge, that my cousin is coming late to town and I will give him the keys so he wouldnīt wake you?"

Concerning Hitler... in last month of WWII war was actually taking place in the German streets, so statistically everybody had a hold of guns,bombs, you name it. Funny Mr.H. had to shoot himself because everybody refused doing that for him. And until maybe 1942 nobody would have done it either, because he was so "successful", you are looking at things from abroad out of our time, the whole story is to compex to roll it up here in a short reply, although you think you can.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 02:28:38 AM by exchlbg »

brique

  • Former member
Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2012, 03:40:38 AM »


@brique -- I'm not saying legitimate citizens with concealed carry permits don't do crazy things from time to time.  The whole reason you go to the range is to practice for those life threatening situations, right?  I've never had to use my weapon to defend myself, but I can imagine it is nerve racking.  If a criminal is unarmed though, often times the mere presence of a weapon scares them away.  I've heard stories of burglars in a house clearing out once they heard the homeowner cock his shotgun.  In my concealed carry class, we practiced drawing from a holster and shooting twice at a target 15 feet away.  A bad guy with a knife can cover 15 feet in two seconds, which means if someone is coming at you there needs to be a quick draw/aim/fire response.  I'm not sure what kind of shooting you do, but that is what I've been trained for.  I also have night sights on my Glock, which is kind of a novelty but if I need to aim in the dark I can.

Well, I'd rather have you beside me in the theatre scenario such as I described ; but alas, I wont know that until it happens, nor will I know if you are you, or some-one who bought the gun last week and has had a few hours on the range. Same way, you wont know if I know what I'm doing when I pull my gun. Actually, neither of us will know if we are defending ourselves or an accomplice to the attacker, not until we see which way we point it. Get my drift? On the range, we know what is happening, we know the situation, we know the drill. We follow procedure and safety rules and, barring a serious malfunction, we know it is safe. We are prepared, we adopt correct stance, we wear safety-glasses, we wear ear protectors. In the movie theatre scenario, none of that applies : we dont even know the attacker is an attacker and not a publicity stunt : as was the case in the Batman screening, many thought it was a stunt.. 'Oh god, you shot the star of the movie! It was a gag, couldnt you see that?'.... unlikely? No, recent case a kid decided to scare his family by dressing up and 'breaking in'... he got shot dead. okay, not very clever of him but still, a somewhat extreme case of grounding.

the prime problem is lack of information ; we do not know whats happening, who is doing it, how many of them, where they are ; we are not prepared for it, we are relaxed and watching the movie, one hand in the popcorn, the other round our date (we hope) and it hits us in a micro-second. If everyone was trained, competent, then yep, let them carry, but reality is, they aint, never will be and in that situation, we'll be in as much danger from them as from the attacker, cos now we got fire coming from more than one direction, nobody knows who is the good guy and who the bad and rationally, the worst thing to do then is join in, no matter how well-trained and competent we may be. That also applies in a Columbine-type situation : is that Jack Good-guy stalking the bad guys in the corridor with his birthday present Glock, or Jack Nutzo, their pal, looking to payback the lunch-money stealing bullies who oppressed him? Does Daisy Dogood know as she points her pink-handled .38 Special at him?

A heck of a lot of special forces training is about not shooting, about making sure you only fire in your allocated arc where you know there are no friendlies, its about making sure you maintain seperation and do not move into anothers arc. its about who is covering who and therefore does not fire unless its absolutely necessary. its about communication, who is where, who is down, how much threat remains as a sector is cleared. They dont want to go in unless and until they know where the bad guys are, and how many. And still they mess up, the SAS ended up 'rescuing' a terrorist during the Iranian Embassy seige in London, it took the other hostages to point him out before he got arrested. He had just sat down amongst the other hostages and bowed his head when the assault went in. Actually, during that entire siege, one of the hostages, PC Locke, a trained fire-arms officer attached to the Diplomatic Protection Squad, was carrying a concealed fire-arm, but could do nothing without endangering himself or the others. General expert opinion was that he did exactly the right thing that way. And with all that training, and the SAS and SEALS are without a doubt the best trained, motivated, competent and expert around ; they still hit each other, they still hit hostages because, on the ground, nothing turns out the way it did in training and rehearsals. But they do come close to perfection and all respect to them for that.

And, as I mentioned before, these attackers (terrorists excepted) turn out so often to be the kind of person that nobody suspected could do such a thing, their weapons are usually legally acquired and held, if not always by them then by family members. Your right to bear arms is their right too, until they go nutzo by which time, its a little too late and thats something we cannot, on an individual basis, legislate against, nor adequately predict nor effectively prevent. Its a sad reflection that its easier to spot and pre-empt  the crazed terrorist than the lethally and more legally armed citizen with a grudge next door.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2012, 03:19:08 PM »
I voted for Romney/Ryan this morning in NC.  I don't vote for offices/people I'm not educated on so I ended up voting for 4 Republicans and 1 Democrat for federal/state offices.  Seeing the results roll in over the next week or so should make for an interesting election...

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2012, 05:57:28 PM »
With Obamacare, citizens are required are being fined for being alive and not participating in a health insurance program.

Please, for the love of god explain what the problem with state funded/assisted healthcare is? It goes on just fine over here in Europe, why is it such a threat to the US?

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2012, 06:08:06 PM »
Please, for the love of god explain what the problem with state funded/assisted healthcare is? It goes on just fine over here in Europe, why is it such a threat to the US?

The same problem that exists in Europe. How do you pay for it?   We don't have get/pst/vat and many other consumer taxes.  The 'recipient class' want the govt to pay for it by taxing the upper 10% more.   In the USA, you have 48% of Americans who pay zero income tax to the federal government already and expect health care for free now.   At what point do you want to return to fiefdoms? 

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2012, 06:19:57 PM »
The same problem that exists in Europe. How do you pay for it?   We don't have get/pst/vat and many other consumer taxes.  The 'recipient class' want the govt to pay for it by taxing the upper 10% more.   In the USA, you have 48% of Americans who pay zero income tax to the federal government already and expect health care for free now.   At what point do you want to return to fiefdoms? 

Pay for it with taxes, seems simple. At least it Britain National Insurance acts as a tax taken from earnings before you get paid which, among other things, funds the NHS. Public healthcare is not for the "recipient class", public healthcare is for pretty much anyone on normal money given how expensive medicine, surgery and treatment actually are in reality. When a full course of medicine in reality can cost Ģ10s if not Ģ100s paying Ģ7.65 for a prescription is not bad.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2012, 06:27:01 PM »
Please, for the love of god explain what the problem with state funded/assisted healthcare is? It goes on just fine over here in Europe, why is it such a threat to the US?

The problem is price controls/rationing.  We have state funded/assisted healthcare with Medicaid/Medicare, but many private doctors don't accept it because it doesn't cover their costs.  It also eliminates the profit motive, which drives efficiency and innovation.  If you have a rare disease, do you trust the private sector to develop a cure in pursuit of profit or would you rather wait for public officials to properly allocate government funds to cure you?  Free market pricing ensures that care is available for those who need it and competition drives down prices.  We already have laws on the books that keeps the free market from working to consumers' benefit, such as being unable to buy insurance across state lines or calculating individual's premiums in group policies based on their individual risk versus group risk.  Why is Bayer/Aspirin so cheap?  It is because other companies thought they could do better and develop Tylenol, Ibuprofen, Aleve, etc.  Part of the reason it is so cheap is Bayer's patent ran out, but if it was illegal to compete with Aspirin, do you think prices and consumer choice would go up or down?

Europe also doesn't have the obesity epidemic that we have in the US.  Is it fair that a 400 pound smoker gets healthcare paid for by me paying a higher premium when I take care of myself?  The other issue is quality.  If you have 250 million people getting healthcare and add 50 million patients, does the quality go up or down?  Sure, everyone has a right to ACCESS to healthcare, but there has to be personal accountability when it comes to paying for services rendered.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2012, 06:29:46 PM »
A lot of the issues come down to what one country is willing to cover versus another.  Health care costs got nuts when we collectively care for things that others do not.   Governments can not and should not pay 250,000 to keep a terminally ill cancer patient alive for 6 more months... Or up to 50k annual support for autistic kids in California...  

No one has yet to show me how I will be able to receive the same level of care with the government plan.  It appears that I will need to pay more money to support others and get about 60% of the care I used to.

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2012, 06:55:19 PM »
No one has yet to show me how I will be able to receive the same level of care with the government plan.

Lets say you have diabetes (as an example), a long term chronic disease that can let people lead a pretty normal life if properly medicated. A little googling says a year of insulin costs about $1,000, knowledge from personal experience says as well as insulin there is probably a cocktail of other drugs being taken, plus a blood testing kit, plus syringes and all the other stuff. Lets (as a guess) say annual medical costs alone could be $5,000 plus, then as diabetes often does it takes a limb, that might be anywhere between $5,000-$50,000 depending on the limb needed and the patient. Those are some big costs.

The US system you run out of money you're royally screwed. Under a public system, doesn't matter, that healthcare keeps on coming regardless. And if you really have a problem with the public system you are free to go private if you want.

Do I need another reason?

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2012, 07:09:55 PM »
Or stem the tide of diabetes?  Many types are onset by poor diet and exercise.  So you're telling me that I'm just better off giving the fat @$$ free insulin to take care of his type 2 so he can keep scarfing down Big Macs instead of having to pay for his amputation later. 

I hate logic like that. 

If we want a payor/recipient class, the recipients don't deserve the same exact care.   We can't afford to keep a 75 year old alive to see 76 on a whim.   

Socialism only works as long as you have someone else's money to spend

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2012, 07:26:20 PM »
My mother has diabetes and sheīs 80. I never saw her having a big mac in her life.Next time I go see her I take my licensed gun.

This is the worst kind of social darwinism I ever heard in my life. I just keep wishing you and your family never be struck by cancer or some rare desease that needs expensive operations. Or some bad injuries (maybe caused by an unintentional gun use) or bad burnings, or a bunch of otherwise beloved relatives turnig over 70. Or you living up to that age.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 09:08:39 PM by exchlbg »

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2012, 08:38:13 PM »
Or stem the tide of diabetes?  Many types are onset by poor diet and exercise.  So you're telling me that I'm just better off giving the fat @$$ free insulin to take care of his type 2 so he can keep scarfing down Big Macs instead of having to pay for his amputation later. 

I hate logic like that. 

If we want a payor/recipient class, the recipients don't deserve the same exact care.   We can't afford to keep a 75 year old alive to see 76 on a whim.   

Socialism only works as long as you have someone else's money to spend

Well here we go, like I said it was a random example. How about Type 1 diabetes, which can hit anyone of any lifestyle or age? Or Cancer? Or Parkinsons? Or MS? Or cerebal palsy? Or heart conditions? Any congenital disorder?

These will all cost money, a lot of money. A chronic disorder would seriously affect anyone on a normal wage. That's what social healthcare is for, to pay and help when life has kicked someone in the balls. That's why it should be part of the basics of any civilised nation.

And that frankly sick quote in the middle, "the recipients don't deserve the same exact care", that's just downright wrong. In every way, that makes me sick to my stomach. A little quote from the NHS constitution; "You have the right to access NHS services”, that means anyone. Everyone is human and everyone deserves healthcare.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2012, 09:32:16 PM »
It's called charity folks.  The US is the most charitable nation in the world.  If your 80 year old neighbor can't pay his heating bill, it is not the federal government's job to make sure he doesn't freeze in the winter--it is the responsibility of his neighbors and local community to make sure he is taken care of.  Guess what happens if the federal government starts paying his heating bill for him?  Everyone else sees it and stops paying theirs, knowing that the feds will step in and take care of them.

We had a firefighter die locally about a year ago when a fire at the local hospital broke out and a roof collapsed on him.  He left behind a wife and 3 small children.  His wife is set for life and his 3 small children's college educations are paid for--not because of government, but because of the community's outpouring of charity.

The concept of the poor or underprivileged falling through the cracks and getting no help is a fallacy.  If I could defer all of my tax dollars that go to welfare to private charity, I would do it in a heartbeat, because private charity helps those who are actually in need versus enabling people to not take care of themselves.  Also, when the government gives you a handout, you can never return the favor.  With charity if you get a helping hand, you have the opportunity to give back.  If you ever volunteer at a charity, you'll see plenty of people that charity has helped that are actively returning the favor.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2012, 09:57:15 PM »
My mother has diabetes and sheīs 80. I never saw her having a big mac in her life.Next time I go see her I take my licensed gun.

This is the worst kind of social darwinism I ever heard in my life. I just keep wishing you and your family never be struck by cancer or some rare desease that needs expensive operations. Or some bad injuries (maybe caused by an unintentional gun use) or bad burnings, or a bunch of otherwise beloved relatives turnig over 70. Or you living up to that age.

The money will run out eventually.  What then?  I am just a realist here.  I have no problem with helping people or caring for them.  The $$$ in is much less than $$$$ out.  Who is going to foot the bill.

I always ask and NEVER get a good response to the following question:   How do you intend to pay for a national health care program in the USA?   Seriously, how is it going to be done?

I also have something that isn't covered by anything... cost me $15k last year.  I understand pain, trust me.  It sucks real hard. 

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Official: Romney a moron
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2012, 10:02:01 PM »
Of course getting money from the state isnīt as sexy as waiting for falling bread crumbs off a shining charity dinner table.
I didnīt know how much I have to thank the Almighty (you name it) not to live in such a country until now. On the other hand, maybe Iīm only stupid and canīt see how poor and completely unfree I am living under social welfare rules. Besides, noone forbids charity here, and itīs happening.
But luckily you are not dependant on it when in need, and you wonīt have to lick some charity lady asses to get into their radar.

How could a Health Program ever work ? Maybe youīre right, it wouldnīt work in America, although many countries of the world manage to have even multiple social securities (health, unemployment,pension) without having totally crumbled, except Greece but thatīs another story.
It has to do with general attitude. In Europe thereīs a general consent about social rights, human rights and limitation of personal financial freedom in an civilized society. In America you keep on disputing about it for ages.Freedom is fine, but you also feel free to let somebody die because heīs ill and canīt pay for treatment.Donīt care,his problem.Maybe I feel free to sign a cheque for charity to feel good.Maybe I donīt, need the money myself.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 10:27:45 PM by exchlbg »

 

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