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Author Topic: Project Portugal  (Read 2963 times)

Offline Andre

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2012, 06:37:37 PM »
Gotta be honest, running an airline this way is really, really boring to me. New BAC just arrived, and I grabbed 2 more used. Haven't scheduled any of the 3 though. Will do so tomorrow, and see if there's any non-terrible option for me for LH. DC10 far too big, a300-600R not enough range, 767 has monster queues.

It's still interesting to read your experience  :) What about the A310-300? It has 5000 NM+ range, fewer seats and not huge queues. I'm operating them successfully with my airline in the same game world.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2012, 02:13:23 AM »
Yeah, could be a possibility. Can't remember how thirsty it is compared to a DC10. Going to log in now and schedule my 3 parked planes, then will have a look at LH options tonight.

Offline Teemu

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2012, 08:52:12 AM »
A310-300 5320 kg/h vs. DC-10-30ER 6980 kg/h ;)

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2012, 09:13:43 AM »
Seriously? You've managed to have that many A/C, and still a handsome money in bank in less than 1 year operation? Not to mention you have a big competitor in town, and limited time access to do the job

I have my own KPDX in BW, operate for about 1 year, have a fleet of 8 SB20 and 5 B734, CI about 30+, high 70ish% LF until some new medium hauls drop it down to high 60ish%

Really need your advice to operate the airlines more efficiently

Oh yeah and I need your explanation about your note

Thanks

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2012, 11:19:42 AM »
Seriously. I have 20 BACs, 1 of them owned, after spending under 5 hours actually logged in. Over 5 million in the bank just after paying staff, can borrow 3.3 million unsecured, plus another 21 using my BAC as security, and my most recent weekly profit was 1.5 million. In a little under 11 months gametime. With no route bigger than 50 pax to myself, and a lot of comp on most routes. My LFs are below 60%, my CI is now 42.

If you have specific questions, want screenshots of particular stuff, please ask. I'll explain my note system in detail in my north american challenge thread, but probably won't type it up until tomorrow. I'll make sure I post the link here, too.


Had a quick look at the a310. It's basically a thirstier 762 with a few more seats and a lot less range. Yuk. But it might be my best option still. Will try and do a bit of LH planning tomorrow.


Quote
Hi i´m puma,

this is the 3rd game there i play and normally i will start in Lisbon, since this is a city that i like a lot. The big question is to know if it´s possible to run another airline in an airport with already a established airline, and in my opinion the answer is yes,
depending on several factors: fuel prices; available planes; and how big you want your airline to be; I think that right now the planes that exist on the market and the fuel prices it´s possible to run another airline specially if you find some routes without competition. The biggest problem in Lisbon it that is closed during the night, that is not a problem for long haul but for some european cities is not that good. Good luck

Awesome, good to hear from you.

Are you ok with me asking you questions/talking about your airline in this thread?

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2012, 03:33:35 PM »
If you have specific questions, want screenshots of particular stuff, please ask. I'll explain my note system in detail in my north american challenge thread, but probably won't type it up until tomorrow. I'll make sure I post the link here, too.

Yes, I have many questions. Here the first three of them

Firstly, how do you schedule turboprop (or any <1000nm A/C)? My schedule from 0500-2300 yield pretty much LF. Then, I've just added very short route with demand of ~60 to the gap 2300-0500, LF turns out to be 15-20% and revenue from those flights are $300-500. Just to get back the 200K slot fee and the extra staff for those route, it will take years. So the investment seems to be a failure

Secondly, how do you deal with tax? How does tax really works in AWS?

Thirdly, how soon do you buy the first A/C? And how do you know if the price is a bargain? Compare with the "calculated price"?

Thank you very much

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2012, 03:49:02 PM »
Yes, I have many questions. Here the first three of them

Firstly, how do you schedule turboprop (or any <1000nm A/C)? My schedule from 0500-2300 yield pretty much LF. Then, I've just added very short route with demand of ~60 to the gap 2300-0500, LF turns out to be 15-20% and revenue from those flights are $300-500. Just to get back the 200K slot fee and the extra staff for those route, it will take years. So the investment seems to be a failure

I'll try and fly red-eyes (i.e. take off from my HQ at 2350, fly east for 3.5 hours and move forward 2 timezones, so I land at 0530). Or I'll put a night flight on a larger route, that I also fly during the day. I try and avoid using middle of the night flights as my only flight on a small route, because they tend to make even less money. If there are 60 pax total demand, there might only be 30 willing to fly at night. But if there are 400 pax total, you can probably find 100 willing to fly at night, even if there are 250 flying with you during the day. I'll have a look tomorrow, post details of a few of my flights and how they're doing. As long as tehy're making some money, I'm happy to fly them. 

Quote
Secondly, how do you deal with tax? How does tax really works in AWS?

Pretty simple. Take the lowest number on your income statement, and add any taxes that were deducted, and any loan payments made. That gives your income for the time period for tax purposes. I'll post screenies tomorrow.

Quote
Thirdly, how soon do you buy the first A/C? And how do you know if the price is a bargain? Compare with the "calculated price"?

I like to buy a plane relatively early, so that I have at least some assets to borrow against, and a potential source of quick cash if I really need it. Other people like to keep leasing, as they can grow quicker that way. It's higher risk though. Usually for me, it's just a case of once I'm big enough, and logged out for long enough, that I can afford to place a purchase order for a new plane, I'll do it. In MT, that was within a few months, I put in an order for 2 new, purchased, 50 seat planes (Saab 2000). They're cheap, they were delivered quickly, so it was easy to make sure I had the cash when they were delivered. In this game, because I logged out for so long, more cash had built up, and I needed to spend 10+ million in one hit. So that was a great time to order a new plane.

From the used market, yeah, just look at the selling price versus the calculated price. However, you shouldn't buy old planes just because they're a bargain. You need to keep the plane for 6+ years for it to work out cheaper than simply leasing. So no point buying a 20 year old bargain, because you'll only fly it for a year or two. That's why I normally start off with a new plane order or two as my first bought planes.

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2012, 02:52:04 AM »
Pretty simple. Take the lowest number on your income statement, and add any taxes that were deducted, and any loan payments made. That gives your income for the time period for tax purposes. I'll post screenies tomorrow.

Definitely need more explanation.

For my case: Dec 2nd 2001, my 2001 Result: 6M. Income tax withheld 2.3M. Weekly profit about 1.5M. So until Dec 31, I need to spend ~ 6 + 2.3 + (4 x 1.5) = 14.3M to get as much tax back, right?

Thanks

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2012, 10:56:13 AM »
HP, your given numbers don´t make any sense. What´s "result" ? What´s "income" ?
Taxes are due every month based on your income deducted by your investments.
At the end of the year, around the 15th of January, these numbers are calculated again. If you paid too much taxes, you´ll get a refund, if not, you´ll have too pay the rest.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2012, 11:16:18 AM »
HP's numbers make sense to me. His yearly profit is 6 mill, he's had 2.3 mill in tax withheld, and he expects to make another 6 mill in the last 4 weeks of the year, leaving him at +14.3 mill for the year. So if he spends 14.3 mill this month, he'll end the year at 0, and get a 2.3 mill refund.


Screenie is my current monthly income statement in DOTM. I lost more than 4 mill in Feb (new plane was delivered), so no deduction in March. In April, I had a profit of  4 778 681, add 522 545 in taxes deducted, add 94 117 in loan payments, and you get 5 395 343 in profit. Tax rate is 28%, 5 395 343 x 0.28 = 1 510 696.04. Round that up to the nearest dollar, and you get my May 10 tax deduction.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2012, 11:18:48 AM »
I got it the way you explained it. Thanks.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2012, 08:47:26 AM »
Logged back in after ignoring things for some time. Ordered 10 BACs, and will replace some of the older leased ones as they arrive. Weekly profits are 1-1.5 mill on 6.5 mill in revenue, roughly.

Saw 2 310-300s in the used market, and that line is relatively empty. So grabbed them. Will figure out where to actually fly them, and start ordering new ones, a bit later.

Reset prices to default, which I had been neglecting. Jumped from 143/395 to 149/409. Hopefully that means an extra 250k a week in revenue (and profit).

I have almost 14% of Lisbon's market share. PAT's CV is now up to 1.6 billion though.

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2012, 03:21:20 PM »
And now PAT is gone....

Ruined your experiment lol

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2012, 03:37:39 PM »
 :o


So, do I BK amd leave DOTM, keep going as I am, or restart somewhere else?

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2012, 03:41:12 PM »
And now PAT is gone....

Ruined your experiment lol

Not necessarily, maybe this is part of the experiment. Depends on the reasons for BK, may have been influenced by the other airline's competition, even if not intentionally run out of business.

:o


So, do I BK amd leave DOTM, keep going as I am, or restart somewhere else?

Now Sanabas the challenge is to see how large you can grow from this position.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Andre

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2012, 05:51:30 PM »
It would be nice to know the reason why he declared bankruptcy. If it was because of you, then it's part of your experiment.. kind of. lol

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2012, 06:21:00 AM »
Profits have jumped to around 3 million/week, LFs are around 70%. I've got 30 mill in the bank, another 30+ I can get as loans, 6 planes unscheduled and 8 more on order. But I think I'll BK in the next couple of days. I think I've proved it's very possible to be profitable, to survive, even as a small, time-limited airline with plenty of comp. And just seeing how big I can get without comp isn't very appealing.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Project Portugal
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2012, 12:34:21 PM »
Thank you very much for all your work you´re doing for the community. I never doubted that opening new airlines mid-game even with competion is possible. I just hope all those complainers take notice of that.

Greets
Christian

 

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