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Author Topic: Integrity of an Alliance  (Read 2902 times)

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2012, 11:11:02 PM »
Then disallow HQ in all other major airports too, including you favorite, LAX and stuff like HND, PEK, CDG, ORD, ATL, and a bazillion more.

Ohh, right, we had that, was in Euro- or US-challenge games!

I think LHR is the most out of balance as far as Pax demand (including a lot of premium) vs. slot supply.  I don't think any other airport comes close to revenue potential for each slot.

In other words, there is a big gap between LHR and the rest of the popular airports...

Offline xyeahtony

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2012, 12:43:18 AM »
I think LHR is the most out of balance as far as Pax demand (including a lot of premium) vs. slot supply.  I don't think any other airport comes close to revenue potential for each slot.

In other words, there is a big gap between LHR and the rest of the popular airports...

LHR in reality only has two runways, so the limited slot availability is quite realistic, compared to JFK, ATL, ORD, DFW, all have far greater number of runways and therefore are able to accommodate more flights. ATL has 5 runways in fact, which prolly explains why it has 100+ slots.


Online Tom14cat14

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2012, 01:22:17 AM »
This is an official press release from the managing members of Skyconnect. After reviewing the information and long deliberation we have decided to place S1Airlines on probation. He has been notified that any more rules infractions will result in his mediated revocation from the alliance. This will also serve as a warning to all alliance members that from this point forth any clear violation of the rules will result in immediate revocation from the alliance. 

APB Airlines
Skyconnect manager
APB Airlines

Offline ChuckPerry

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2012, 01:23:40 AM »
In real life ATL isn't slot restricted at all... Neither is ORD... Slot restrictions in the USA are extremely rare - only four out of hundreds of U.S. airports are subject to federal slot restrictions: LGA, DCA, JFK, and EWR. ORD was slot restricted before it opened the new runway in 2008. All other airports are actually forbidden to artificially restrict flight operations through slot systems, etc. but a few community airports are exempt since their operating procedures were established well before the 90's and thus "grandfathered in". So, even at busy airports like ATL, ORD, DFW, DEN, LAX, IAD, FLL, BOS, SEA, MIA, PHL, SFO etc. there are no slot restrictions in place that would make incumbent airline expansion and new carrier market entry inherently difficult. So long as airlines have the terminal space/gates to support their ops, flights can be readily added and dropped at any U.S. airport without a problem.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2012, 01:48:34 AM »
But this is not RL. When in RL 650 airlines started operation at the same day at totally empty airports?
Restrictions are here to stop the first few lucky from expanding like madmen, giving a more equal chance to everybody.

Offline jewiden

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2012, 01:52:05 AM »
So long as airlines have the terminal space/gates to support their ops
Afaik this is actually the main issue at LHR. IRL, there simply isn't room to park any more a/c on the ground, even though the runways can handle more flights.
(This might have changed with the opening of T5?)

The slot system in AWS is, imo, a quite good simplification of many factors that limits airport operations, including runway, terminal and parking capacities, noise restrictions etc.

Offline ChuckPerry

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2012, 01:53:58 AM »
Understood.. I'm just trying to educate people on how slots work in RL...

Offline JMsoo

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2012, 01:55:42 AM »
LHR in reality only has two runways, so the limited slot availability is quite realistic, compared to JFK, ATL, ORD, DFW, all have far greater number of runways and therefore are able to accommodate more flights. ATL has 5 runways in fact, which prolly explains why it has 100+ slots.



I like to add that LHR had limitation due too the densely populated area on wich is situated that explain why such a big airport does not operate 24hours, second last october/November they started to use both runway for takeoff and landing at the same time to increase capacity not sure if still active now, as resident protested otherwise is one for takeoff and one for landings rotating at 3pm I used to leave 10min by tube from terminal 3 airplanes used to fly over my house on final for the 27R on pick time we talk about one plane fallowing another one by just 1/2min gap not only 737/a319 but lots of big one including several 380s.

Our current mayor propose to built a new airport as LHR riched full capacity talking about 99% and the only way for British airways to expand was to acquire BMI not for save it but for get the slots as BMI its strong  at terminal 1 otherwise forget expansion!

So I think AWS reflect reality and if u based at LHR you must plan your way carefully.

My opinion, those arline are big and valuable as alliance members and I kind of understand why they they keep them in business is business, however if you aim to be honest and correct towards everyone well, they should get a different approach that's my opinion
African Airline International...Your Place on Sky...

Offline ChuckPerry

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2012, 01:58:14 AM »
You're absolutely right.. I have no idea how sami allocates slots in AWS but in the real world, there are three factors taken into account by Airport Coordination Ltd (ACL) who issue and control the use of LHR slots. These are:

1. Runway space which, in turn is somewhat dependent upon:

2. Aircraft size as this impacts the spacing of aircraft because of wake turbulance both on approach and on departure.

3. Additionally there has to be sufficient terminal capacity to handle both the aircraft and its arriving or departing passengers.

Offline Frogiton

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2012, 02:38:55 AM »
You're absolutely right.. I have no idea how sami allocates slots in AWS but in the real world, there are three factors taken into account by Airport Coordination Ltd (ACL) who issue and control the use of LHR slots. These are:

1. Runway space which, in turn is somewhat dependent upon:

2. Aircraft size as this impacts the spacing of aircraft because of wake turbulance both on approach and on departure.

3. Additionally there has to be sufficient terminal capacity to handle both the aircraft and its arriving or departing passengers.


You and somebody else think very alike.  :P
No replacement for displacement

janesc

  • Former member
Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2012, 04:23:28 AM »
I like to add that LHR had limitation due too the densely populated area on wich is situated that explain why such a big airport does not operate 24hours, second last october/November they started to use both runway for takeoff and landing at the same time to increase capacity not sure if still active now, as resident protested otherwise is one for takeoff and one for landings rotating at 3pm I used to leave 10min by tube from terminal 3 airplanes used to fly over my house on final for the 27R on pick time we talk about one plane fallowing another one by just 1/2min gap not only 737/a319 but lots of big one including several 380s.

Our current mayor propose to built a new airport as LHR riched full capacity talking about 99% and the only way for British airways to expand was to acquire BMI not for save it but for get the slots as BMI its strong  at terminal 1 otherwise forget expansion!

So I think AWS reflect reality and if u based at LHR you must plan your way carefully.

My opinion, those arline are big and valuable as alliance members and I kind of understand why they they keep them in business is business, however if you aim to be honest and correct towards everyone well, they should get a different approach that's my opinion


The Mixed Mode operations at LHR were only a trial i'm afraid and they are  currently back on the one for takeoff and one for landing (expect for the TEAM arrivals in the morning using both runways for landing).  Although I believe the added pressure on the government, to get there heads out the sand, may raise the issue of mixed mode being used again the future, but I wouldn't expect any decisiona soon!

Offline Kadachiman

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2012, 08:07:23 AM »
It appears that some have misunderstood the meaning of Integrity, therefore I have posted the definition below:

" adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty"

I do not see anywhere in the definition where it uses the words 'self or group justifiable cheating'

It appears that the Alliances (and no particular Alliance is targeted) do not 'Act with Integrity' but instead chose to support 'Justifiable Cheating' and therefore will not take appropriate action against members of their respective Alliance that have 'chosen' to cheat.

I therefore suggest that if you're airline is a member of an Alliance that does not 'Act with Integrity' that you do not let yourself be tarnished by their lack of appropriate action and leave the Alliance.
I also suggest that a new Alliance be set up to allow players who 'Act with Integrity' to join...perhaps that could be the alliance name 'Integrity'

Offline Steve

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2012, 02:45:51 PM »



One airline has been put on probation by its alliance whatever that means.  Its basically a slap on the wrist.

To a previous point in this thread. Its like saying well everyone in my sporting event is doping and thus in order to stay competitive, i must do it as well. if I don't I won't have any chance at a medal and will be last place. My coaches and my teamates  know i m doing it thus it must be ok.   

Offline ChuckPerry

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2012, 04:33:41 PM »
Good Point Steve

Offline CVACEO

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2012, 07:18:16 PM »
It appears that some have misunderstood the meaning of Integrity, therefore I have posted the definition below:

" adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty"

I do not see anywhere in the definition where it uses the words 'self or group justifiable cheating'

It appears that the Alliances (and no particular Alliance is targeted) do not 'Act with Integrity' but instead chose to support 'Justifiable Cheating' and therefore will not take appropriate action against members of their respective Alliance that have 'chosen' to cheat.

I therefore suggest that if you're airline is a member of an Alliance that does not 'Act with Integrity' that you do not let yourself be tarnished by their lack of appropriate action and leave the Alliance.
I also suggest that a new Alliance be set up to allow players who 'Act with Integrity' to join...perhaps that could be the alliance name 'Integrity'

Exactly.  Love the idea.  AWS is about competing against each other - but within a firmly established boundary of rules that level the playing field as much as possible.  There is room in the current rules for each player to pursue unique strategies, preferences, levels of realism, etc... and the rules help to minimize loopholes that could be exploited by more experienced players or those who simply have more time to dedicate to the game.  I like the current rules, I like the way AWS is structured (emulating real life while still a playable game even for the novice) and I like that those who cheat are at least held accountable in the forums by fellow players.

Offline FlyTO

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2012, 08:28:00 PM »
Mind you the fines given out by Sami are a slap on the wrist for LHR airlines as the airlines would make more than that in profit or expected profits in a couple of game weeks.

But I did always wonder how slots would disappear so fast.

Offline xyeahtony

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2012, 10:08:48 PM »


One airline has been put on probation by its alliance whatever that means.  Its basically a slap on the wrist.

To a previous point in this thread. Its like saying well everyone in my sporting event is doping and thus in order to stay competitive, i must do it as well. if I don't I won't have any chance at a medal and will be last place. My coaches and my teamates  know i m doing it thus it must be ok.  

It appears that some have misunderstood the meaning of Integrity, therefore I have posted the definition below:

" adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty"

I do not see anywhere in the definition where it uses the words 'self or group justifiable cheating'

It appears that the Alliances (and no particular Alliance is targeted) do not 'Act with Integrity' but instead chose to support 'Justifiable Cheating' and therefore will not take appropriate action against members of their respective Alliance that have 'chosen' to cheat.

I therefore suggest that if you're airline is a member of an Alliance that does not 'Act with Integrity' that you do not let yourself be tarnished by their lack of appropriate action and leave the Alliance.
I also suggest that a new Alliance be set up to allow players who 'Act with Integrity' to join...perhaps that could be the alliance name 'Integrity'

If the NFL or NBA decides to fine individual players for violations, does that mean those specific teams will then kick those players out? usually no. The player in question in our alliance, he was already punished by the admin, kicking him out of our alliance wouldn't be much of a punishment, one of the other alliances would gladly pick him up. Skyconnect and Elite are the two highly regarded alliances of the AWS game, we don't need to kick a player to make a political statement. Fines reaching $100M isn't chump change...





Offline SAC

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2012, 10:39:42 PM »
I do not blame any of them if I am brutally honest, and am not scared to say so !   It is easy to call for action when it is not you in question, but what bugs me is that 95% of airlines would have done exactly the same in that situation...admit it or not...yet people are all to keen to jump on this band wagon.

The slot situation in LHR is dia, and once all the based airlines discovered the time / date of slot release then this was always going to happen.  In a way the system did not help and was possibly a contributing cause of the violations.  

On the part of Elite, please remember it was Elite alliance management that reported this to Sami some 10 days ago, and under the circumstances felt Jasmine had no choice but to join in the monthly slot frenzy until Sami resolved the issue.  If he wouldn't have then he would have got zero slots for the last several game months and faced getting no more slots until fixed by Sami...ask your self is that fair, and would you be happy with that considering you had reported it and nothing was done for days - Jasmine has paid his credits and deserves some sort of game for his money.

Not sure what the guy in ATL excuse is though...he must be up against a top airline and desperate ;)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 11:11:31 PM by SAC »
...it's not over until I say it's over

Offline xyeahtony

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Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2012, 10:42:56 PM »
I do not blame any of them if I am brutally honest, and am not scared to say so !   It is easy to call for action when it is not you in question, but what bugs me is that 95% of airlines would have done exactly the same in that situation...admit it or not...yet people are all to keen to jump on this band wagon.

The slot situation in LHR is dia, and once all the based airlines discovered the time / date of slot release then this was always going to happen.  In a way the system did not help and was possibly a cause the violations. 

On the part of Elite, please remember it was Elite alliance management that reported this to Sami some 10 days ago, and under the circumstances felt Jasmine had no choice but to join in the monthly slot frenzy until Sami resolved the issue.  If he wouldn't have then he would have got zero slots for the last several game months....ask your self is that fair, and would you be happy with that considering you had reported it and nothing was done instantly - Jasmine has paid his credits and deserves some sort of game for his money.

Not sure what the guy in ATL excuse is though...he must be up against a top airline and is despearte ;)

Yeah like i said what these guys did were wrong, but i dont blame them. Its pretty cutthroat at LHR and difficult to move ahead. And if you're on a team of 10 people and 9 people are cheating and winning, honestly being the 1 guy who sticks to his morals and ends up losing the game doesn't really accomplish much on a virtual game world.

brique

  • Former member
Re: Integrity of an Alliance
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2012, 10:46:58 PM »
If the NFL or NBA decides to fine individual players for violations, does that mean those specific teams will then kick those players out? usually no. The player in question in our alliance, he was already punished by the admin, kicking him out of our alliance wouldn't be much of a punishment, one of the other alliances would gladly pick him up. Skyconnect and Elite are the two highly regarded alliances of the AWS game, we don't need to kick a player to make a political statement. Fines reaching $100M isn't chump change...


current stats : revenue last quarter : MT#7
   
    Airline     
1   S1 Airlines   3 491 960 121 USD
2   Jasmine Airlines   2 438 952 570 USD


I'd consider that $100mil fines are chump change when running these sorts of numbers : its what, 10% of the monthly revenue : relatively speaking, its laughable.

As for the 'every-one was doing it' defence : that don't wash for lynchings, gang-rapes or riots : don't see any reason it should apply here either.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 10:54:19 PM by brique »

 

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