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Author Topic: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages  (Read 2184 times)

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2012, 07:56:58 PM »
Btw. One possible rule change.

Local airlines at each airport are not allowed to control more than 70% of each hour's slots (all local airlines combined).

In other words if airport A has 10 slots per hour, local airlines would see this as 7 slots per hour, all others as 10 per hour. Relatively easy to code, and reduce the slot hogging of local based airlines, and giving others at least some sort of guaranteed slot quota, and also should not cause too big disadvantage to local airlines on thr other hand... Call it another anti monopoly rule if you like.

I think this would exacerbate what I see as the biggest issue. You have 2 or more aggressive airlines together in a HQ, all aiming to grow very large. In a big, slot constrained airport, they will make enough money and get enough planes that the limiting factor to their growth is having slots available to purchase. When new slots become available, whoever is online first gets ALL of them. End result is that the big airline in the HQ isn't the one who played better, it's the one who was online at the luckiest times (or who was online the day they knew slots dropped. Think it was always 2nd of the month for Tokyo, 3rd of the month for LHR, etc. As that changed in the last couple of weeks, it should now just be random luck). This happens at LHR, NRT, AMS, Beijing, it'll even happen at Orly if 2 extremely aggressive players are there. Reducing the slot numbers by 30% just means this will happen at more airports, and more people will see their airline making plenty of profit, but unable to expand at all while their direct competitor doubles in size, purely due to blind luck. Makes a gameworld very boring when that happens.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2012, 11:56:59 PM »
I think this would exacerbate what I see as the biggest issue. You have 2 or more aggressive airlines together in a HQ, all aiming to grow very large. In a big, slot constrained airport, they will make enough money and get enough planes that the limiting factor to their growth is having slots available to purchase. When new slots become available, whoever is online first gets ALL of them. End result is that the big airline in the HQ isn't the one who played better, it's the one who was online at the luckiest times (or who was online the day they knew slots dropped. Think it was always 2nd of the month for Tokyo, 3rd of the month for LHR, etc. As that changed in the last couple of weeks, it should now just be random luck). This happens at LHR, NRT, AMS, Beijing, it'll even happen at Orly if 2 extremely aggressive players are there. Reducing the slot numbers by 30% just means this will happen at more airports, and more people will see their airline making plenty of profit, but unable to expand at all while their direct competitor doubles in size, purely due to blind luck. Makes a gameworld very boring when that happens.

Just to add to this, the situation with slots went 3 steps forward and 4 steps back.

Forward:
- We got all the randomness etc, not being able to buy slots in negative cash, reducing the frequency benefit etc.

Reverse:
- Total number of slots has been reduced by about 25% from what it was in previous 2-3 game worlds.

I think what most players are asking is not if there is a player at airport XYZ who has more than 70% of slots, but if I want to fly to XYZ, is there going to be a slot available for me.  Sadly, with the overall total slot reduction, the answer is "No" as much or more often than before all the changes were made.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2013, 06:18:35 AM »
- Total number of slots has been reduced by about 25% from what it was in previous 2-3 game worlds.

I find this slot reduction in MT7 vs. MT6 to be the step in the wrong direction.  There is a lot less competition as a result.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2013, 11:18:20 PM »
I donīt agree to the idea of having an unlimited slot number, game would move too far away from reality.Slots are not only limited by the number of runways, but by available ramp space/gate numbers and all necessary ground service space requirements. And in reality slots are limited to a fixed number for quite some time, until airport finances and politics allow constructing new runways/terminals. This process nowadays takes many years of planning and jurisdiction.You all know about those slot restricted airports but still insist to base there only to be confronted with the same problems in every game world.Instead of complaining and coming up with ideas like a bidding system and hundreds of unrealistic rule changes you should take this as a challenge to come up with your own ideas how to deal with it like using bigger aicraft models. I think city-based demand should ease that problem, because it takes off the pressure to serve all congested London area airports to meet their special demands, being able to choose just one to meet area demand.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 11:29:12 PM by exchlbg »

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2013, 12:04:40 AM »
I donīt agree to the idea of having an unlimited slot number, game would move too far away from reality.Slots are not only limited by the number of runways, but by available ramp space/gate numbers and all necessary ground service space requirements. And in reality slots are limited to a fixed number for quite some time, until airport finances and politics allow constructing new runways/terminals. This process nowadays takes many years of planning and jurisdiction.You all know about those slot restricted airports but still insist to base there only to be confronted with the same problems in every game world.Instead of complaining and coming up with ideas like a bidding system and hundreds of unrealistic rule changes you should take this as a challenge to come up with your own ideas how to deal with it like using bigger aicraft models. I think city-based demand should ease that problem, because it takes off the pressure to serve all congested London area airports to meet their special demands, being able to choose just one to meet area demand.

- IMO, slots at an airport and the aggregate demand should be such that there is enough competition (and lower LFs).  I thought we have reached that nirvana when frequency benefit was lowered.  So we had a chance to compete with appropriate aircraft for the route served, and competition would lower the LFs and excessive profits.  Reduction of slots just eliminated chance to see some competition, since most of the busy airports are pretty much out of slots.

- slots and demand are related.  If the demand is so high and slots are so low, that all flights have nearly 100% LF, than the balance has not been achieved, competition is eliminated, limited to the first guy who grabbed the slots...  Very static game.

- I could just as well say lower the demand.  Demand seems higher than IRL.  But that is fine, because game such as MT game can accommodate > 600 players

- slots are a PITA IRL, but playability of AWS needs to be a factor, and if playability can be improved, and an MT game is to accommodate > 600 players, and adjustment can be made. 

- Sami made that adjustment, games MT4, 5, 6 were a ton on fun.  MT7 with 25% slot reduction is a borefest.  95% of my routes were scheduled by 2007, and last 10 game years, I am just watching pax demand rise, slats stay stagnant, and my planes just fill up, money keeps rolling in...  Nobody can challenge me (no slots) I can't challenge anybody (no slots)...  As far as I am concerned, MT7 died when the new, lower cap was put in place...

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2013, 12:29:29 AM »
The large US airports have enough slots that competition is mostly limited to those who want to provide it.

The really large European airports very much don't.

Gameplay is different, depending on where your HQ is, how much competition you have, etc. Start in ORD with only one other proper airline, and you just want to expand quickly, and know that slots won't be much of an issue. Start in CDG with 5 others, and you'll find yourself expanding less optimally in order to make sure you get slots.

Agree it gets very boring when you have HQ to yourself, and all the slots are gone. But think it gets almost as boring when you have your HQ to yourself, you fly practically every viable route, and there are still 20+ spare slots in most hours if someone wants to turn up and eat into your profits.

I like the challenge of dealing with limited slots as your airline grows. Like in JA, where NRT was very full, very early, and getting more planes meant turning SH flights into LH, to make more money per slot. So lots more slots early, to make expanding in CDG/LHR/etc the same as expanding in ATL/ORD/DFW is something I wouldn't want. More slots later in the game, so that 15 years in sees ATL being similar to AMS could help keep interest longer.

My main gripe is with how slot releases are dealt with. That expanding more efficiently than your direct competitors becomes much less relevant than just being online at the right time. That's not just related to slot numbers vs demand, that's also related to plane prices, profits, number of airlines in your HQ vs start-up cash. In the Euro challenge, it's possible for expanding more efficiently to make a big difference, it will be tough right now for an airline to instantly grab all 168 extra slots when they appear, just because they're online first. a 2:1 slot lead during that initial expansion won't suddenly disappear. Whereas in JA at NRT, it was trivial to do it, both airlines were rolling in enough cash to grab all the slots they had access to, a 2:1 slot lead quickly turned into a 1:2 deficit, purely due to being online at the wrong times.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 07:31:42 PM »
The large US airports have enough slots that competition is mostly limited to those who want to provide it.

The really large European airports very much don't.

...

Agree it gets very boring when you have HQ to yourself, and all the slots are gone. But think it gets almost as boring when you have your HQ to yourself, you fly practically every viable route, and there are still 20+ spare slots in most hours if someone wants to turn up and eat into your profits.

Well, if there are 20+ spare slots, somebody may open a base at your HQ, but more importantly, you can open a base if there are 20+ spare slots airports.  In Europe, there are none...

Competition is what makes the game fun, once you figure out the mechanics.  There is a lot less competition with 25% slot reduction.  Less competition, less fun...

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2013, 06:49:11 AM »
- Sami made that adjustment, games MT4, 5, 6 were a ton on fun.  MT7 with 25% slot reduction is a borefest.  95% of my routes were scheduled by 2007, and last 10 game years, I am just watching pax demand rise, slats stay stagnant, and my planes just fill up, money keeps rolling in...  Nobody can challenge me (no slots) I can't challenge anybody (no slots)...  As far as I am concerned, MT7 died when the new, lower cap was put in place...

LOL... it's like if you are playing call of duty, and suddenly they all run out of ammo (and the developers refuse to give any).... you aim the gun at somebody, they aim at you and nothing happens... Then you are limited to chase each other with the knife... so fun! (not).


I'd say "city based demand" will solve this, but cosmetic overhauls seems more important than gameplay these days... (as in almost every game available -sadly-).

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2013, 07:44:10 AM »
LOL... it's like if you are playing call of duty, and suddenly they all run out of ammo (and the developers refuse to give any).... you aim the gun at somebody, they aim at you and nothing happens... Then you are limited to chase each other with the knife... so fun! (not).

Good analogy.  Except, it turns out to be one of those airline plastic knives...

Offline Sami

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Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2013, 11:40:15 AM »
One simple solution is to add slot quotas for each airline.

Simply put you are allowed to get X new slots per each airport per month (If the airport is your base, number X would be X*2 for example). Defining "x" would be a different thing then.


Also every time an airport gets a slot increase the airlines based there may get up to 70% of those slots, 30% is earmarked for other airlines. Though the other airlines may get even 100% of the slots if the based airlines are not interested. Creating outside competition, and not letting the based airlines to reload&snap the slots is important...

The new pre-creation of routes feature will certainly encourage some people to snap slots quickly so some other rules will be put to place, just a question of the style and type of them.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 11:42:29 AM by sami »

rickyricky101

  • Former member
Re: Ideas to alleviate slot shortages
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2013, 01:57:42 AM »
The main issue is that when slots are released they are all grabbed within about 5 mins.  For example Heathrow they have started being dropped 3 at a time.  This actually makes the problem worse as the player on at the time grabs the majority.  I think this makes it more based on luck as to who was on when the batch got dropped.

If each hours slots were dripped in slowly instead of the 3 slots for the whole day all at once, one airline would not be in a position to immediately grab them as above, instead airlines on at any given time would have a fair chance to get some slots, as they are constantly released.

 

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