Is Airway sim dying?

[Monk Xion]

Since the game has become about a few select players spending an incredible amount of time early on using all the exploits in the game to stranglehold every single major base, it seems there's just the "Regulars" playing now.

I haven't seen airwaysim really "grow"

Always two moderately populated game worlds that are the most active, within 5-6 years of game time, the numbers drop off.

So I ask, why not have more game worlds?

Why not make the rules a little more realistic so those of us that don't have hours upon hours to exploit can actually enjoy the game again?

/Rant

AWS started to die when the beta players started to leave

I played a game reciently and found it to be boring. IN the beginning, the game was fun, but since some people came in and started trouble, I decided that this game wasnt all it used to be :/

I play Airline Empires now, and while the game is inferior in ways compared to AWS, the community is much more active and less technical about the game (and whiny) than some people here.

Things have started to changed, but aws has lost its fun it used to have.... atleast for me.

/rant

[Sami]

Definitely not "dying".

It is perfectly natural that people change over time. Others leave, others come in. But the average player numbers are the same or higher as before. But I do agree that AWS is not perfect, and work is ongoing.. (in fact, when _I_ feel the sim is complete, then you do not see me online anymore that much)

[Jona L.]

Before in this game a 747 or 777 can be used again with success, 3 things need to happen:

a) bring back the ticket prices for LH to their untweaked positions, since they had been massively cut in an early attempt to ban magic carpets. These have been removed differently, the tweak is still left active.

b) go back to the old number of slots, and not this 200% crap, by having only half the slots people are forced to use planes of a decent size, over some random rubbish with wings, because they won't get 30 slot weeks in LHR for their f*ggot F27.

c) tear down the frequency benefit a couple of steps, on the ladder of importance. Make Price, speed, seating quality and the alike matter more than that. Just because I fly a route 5x with a 100 seater I won't get 2.5x the seats of the one flying it 2x with a 250 seater IRL. Company Image should actually mean something, make it harder to achieve it, and let it take longer to do so.I am sure, that changing this thing would just be a switch of 2, maybe 3 parameters if the basic code is very tidily made.


cheers,
Jona L.

[Pilot Oatmeal]

Before in this game a 747 or 777 can be used again with success, 3 things need to happen:

a) bring back the ticket prices for LH to their untweaked positions, since they had been massively cut in an early attempt to ban magic carpets. These have been removed differently, the tweak is still left active.

b) go back to the old number of slots, and not this 200% crap, by having only half the slots people are forced to use planes of a decent size, over some random rubbish with wings, because they won't get 30 slot weeks in LHR for their f*** F27.

c) tear down the frequency benefit a couple of steps, on the ladder of importance. Make Price, speed, seating quality and the alike matter more than that. Just because I fly a route 5x with a 100 seater I won't get 2.5x the seats of the one flying it 2x with a 250 seater IRL. Company Image should actually mean something, make it harder to achieve it, and let it take longer to do so.I am sure, that changing this thing would just be a switch of 2, maybe 3 parameters if the basic code is very tidily made.


cheers,
Jona L.

Hear here. 

[Jona L.]

P.S.

This is not only necessary to run 747 / 777 again, it is generally necessary to make widebodies run profitable on LH routes again.

[EsquireFlyer]

Before in this game a 747 or 777 can be used again with success, 3 things need to happen:

a) bring back the ticket prices for LH to their untweaked positions, since they had been massively cut in an early attempt to ban magic carpets. These have been removed differently, the tweak is still left active.

b) go back to the old number of slots, and not this 200% crap, by having only half the slots people are forced to use planes of a decent size, over some random rubbish with wings, because they won't get 30 slot weeks in LHR for their f*** F27.

c) tear down the frequency benefit a couple of steps, on the ladder of importance. Make Price, speed, seating quality and the alike matter more than that. Just because I fly a route 5x with a 100 seater I won't get 2.5x the seats of the one flying it 2x with a 250 seater IRL. Company Image should actually mean something, make it harder to achieve it, and let it take longer to do so.I am sure, that changing this thing would just be a switch of 2, maybe 3 parameters if the basic code is very tidily made.

+1

[EsquireFlyer]

P.S.

This is not only necessary to run 747 / 777 again, it is generally necessary to make widebodies run profitable on LH routes again.

I am just a newbie here but already I am sick of having my DC10/L1011s get shredded by people flying 727s tech-stopped across oceans. If passengers were actually willing to fly techstopped 727s across oceans (and happily pay the same "set to default" price!!) you would see airlines doing it in real life..but you don't.

Even British Airways, with their very high CI and RI, can only get away with tech-stopping an A318 from London to New York by:
(1) doing the techstop one-way LCY-JFK only, and having JFK-LCY be a non-stop redeye marketed as a premium sleeper service
(2) doing the techstop in SNN, which has US Customs pre-clearance capabilities, so the passengers' time is actually efficiently used and not wasted
(3) operating from LCY in London, saving passengers travel time to/from downtown, making the tech stop worthwhile
(4) configuring the plane as an all-business-class Magic Carpet, which is banned in AirwaySim.

And even then, it only works on the unique market LCY-JFK, and not, for example, to EWR, BOS, ORD, etc.
Any airline foolish enough to try routinely tech-stopping 727s across oceans IRL, with normal pricing and services, and attempting to compete for Y pax, would go BK pretty fast.

[brique]

I think part of the problem with small a/c running into large airports is associated with the current demand model, coupled with the issues of running small a/c fleets : somewhere, you have to make some fat jam, above the thin bread and butter of local flights, to cover the dreaded costs of C/D checks and overheads. I'd suggest seeing a nice fat demand into your local major airport is just too tempting : and as commonality penalties don't justify keeping a large a/c just for that route, the logical step is to 'pad-out' each a/c's daily itinerary with a profitable dip into that jam-pot.

We can't all get a base in those majors, especially if you don't start at 00.00hrs on Day 1, most end up at secondary airports with much more limited route potential. So, borrowing a Godfather quote : You have to let us draw water from the well too.

None of which excuses deliberate slog-hogging, but, tbh, there will always be some players who will attempt to find and exploit any loop-hole to gain advantage : limit major airports to 50+ seat a/c and they will fill them with 51-seat a/c instead. Meanwhile the smaller a/c become ever more meaningless and so we all end up having to run big-birds and increase the pressure on slots at majors that way instead.

[ekaneti]

Connecting pax! Current game mechanincs force the strategy of each game to be the same. Good implementation of connecting pax should allow more different successfull strategies.

Answer for the question: I think many players find current games repetitive and the big Wow effect of this great game vanishes over time leading players to not come back for a another game. That's how I feel about the game.

I dont think players realize just how complicated modeling connecting passengers would be. It would be a massive undertaking.

[LostInBKK]

Before in this game a 747 or 777 can be used again with success, 3 things need to happen:

a) bring back the ticket prices for LH to their untweaked positions, since they had been massively cut in an early attempt to ban magic carpets. These have been removed differently, the tweak is still left active.

b) go back to the old number of slots, and not this 200% crap, by having only half the slots people are forced to use planes of a decent size, over some random rubbish with wings, because they won't get 30 slot weeks in LHR for their f*** F27.

c) tear down the frequency benefit a couple of steps, on the ladder of importance. Make Price, speed, seating quality and the alike matter more than that. Just because I fly a route 5x with a 100 seater I won't get 2.5x the seats of the one flying it 2x with a 250 seater IRL. Company Image should actually mean something, make it harder to achieve it, and let it take longer to do so.I am sure, that changing this thing would just be a switch of 2, maybe 3 parameters if the basic code is very tidily made.


cheers,
Jona L.

Can you respond to this please Sami.

Thanks
Lost

[LostInBKK]

I dont think players realize just how complicated modeling connecting passengers would be. It would be a massive undertaking.

It may well be a massive undertaking but it is the direction the game should be heading in. IMHO

Cheers
Lost

[stevecree]

Making it so an airline can survive in LHR with a fleet of 777's for a whole game with no slots to challenge them would kill the game for sure....what would the point be except for the player that was lucky enough to be there ?    Does not take much of a player to succeed under those conditions does it !!

For the record though, I have been playing for years now and enjoy the game more than ever....so no...AWS is not dying at all IMO, although in an ideal world I would like Cargo, connecting passengers, bigger bases and A-B-C-B-A routes back...but I would also like a million pounds and a Bentley, but in life you do not always get what you want  

[brique]

Re : SAC's post.

aah... a Bentley... *dreams

I seem to be becoming a small a/c advocate here, ahem... but when you join games mid-way, its all that seems to be left unless you get lucky and move in on a soon-to-be bk competitor.

So, from the swamp-life perspective...

A-B-C-B-A : oh a definite 'Yes please!' : +1

Cargo : could be a useful boost to route income : reflecting local/regional mail/courier contracts, perhaps? That's a +1 too.

Px Connectivity : Again, modelled right and it will be a great help to us bottom-feeders : +1

Bigger bases : n/a really : nul point

3 out of 4 aint bad tho 

[alexgv1]

Before in this game a 747 or 777 can be used again with success, 3 things need to happen:

a) bring back the ticket prices for LH to their untweaked positions, since they had been massively cut in an early attempt to ban magic carpets. These have been removed differently, the tweak is still left active.

b) go back to the old number of slots, and not this 200% crap, by having only half the slots people are forced to use planes of a decent size, over some random rubbish with wings, because they won't get 30 slot weeks in LHR for their f*ggot F27.

c) tear down the frequency benefit a couple of steps, on the ladder of importance. Make Price, speed, seating quality and the alike matter more than that. Just because I fly a route 5x with a 100 seater I won't get 2.5x the seats of the one flying it 2x with a 250 seater IRL. Company Image should actually mean something, make it harder to achieve it, and let it take longer to do so.I am sure, that changing this thing would just be a switch of 2, maybe 3 parameters if the basic code is very tidily made.


cheers,
Jona L.

Word. Not just because he is my friend, but I agree because its as if he read my mind on these things (perhaps I shared these touts previously). However my order of importance would be c,b,a.

[swiftus27]

Talentz, where are you!?!?  We need your wisdom at this dark hour!  Many of the Beta players are still here.  They just hide in the background a lot.  The 'negative' elements in the forums were seemingly dealt with already. 

-----

Factors affecting whether a passenger flies with you:
1.  Time of takeoff (is it after 2300 or before 0500?)
2.  Time of landing (is it after 2300 or before 0500?)
3.  Ticket Price
4.  Seating Quality
5.  Frequency of flights to that same destination
6.  Airline's CI
7.  Airline's RI


Now in order of game importance:
1.  Frequency
40.  Time of takeoff and landing
1000.  Everything else. 

[Jona L.]

Making it so an airline can survive in LHR with a fleet of 777's for a whole game with no slots to challenge them would kill the game for sure....what would the point be except for the player that was lucky enough to be there ?    Does not take much of a player to succeed under those conditions does it !!

For the record though, I have been playing for years now and enjoy the game more than ever....so no...AWS is not dying at all IMO, although in an ideal world I would like Cargo, connecting passengers, bigger bases and A-B-C-B-A routes back...but I would also like a million pounds and a Bentley, but in life you do not always get what you want  

You voting communists as well?

What is the point of destroying big business for the sake of cr*ppy small sh*t that you dare call an airline? A320 tech stop is no skill, playing in LHR, is actually hard, and slot locking an airport like that is big of a task. Waiting for every single slot to free up, staying awake nights long, just to see if some airline flying into LHR went BK, so you would be able to open 2 weekly flights somewhere. I never cried about such, but what I cry about, and one day will start shooting people for is for hells sake flying 20 seaters into LHR. Had a go on BMI staff, when I was in LHR IRL, how they could dare fly EMB-135s into that place, and use the few space available for their s***ty little planes. Didn't listen to their reply, called the scum for doing so, and that is what everyone is, that flies these planes into LHR.

Okay, this needed to be said, ruined my mood for this day, to see more of you leftists trying to ruin world's economy, even in simulations.

I think playing AWS is just turning more and more into a noob war of who can fly the smalles plane on the furthest route, and ruin as many normal planes as possible.... Banning magic carpets was done fast, how long is it gonna take to ban frequency raping? Already took too long so far.


cheers,
Jona L.

[alexgv1]

playing in LHR, is actually hard, and slot locking an airport like that is big of a task.

Especially when you never did such with less than a 757.

[Pilot Oatmeal]

You voting communists as well?

What is the point of destroying big business for the sake of cr*ppy small sh*t that you dare call an airline? A320 tech stop is no skill, playing in LHR, is actually hard, and slot locking an airport like that is big of a task. Waiting for every single slot to free up, staying awake nights long, just to see if some airline flying into LHR went BK, so you would be able to open 2 weekly flights somewhere. I never cried about such, but what I cry about, and one day will start shooting people for is for hells sake flying 20 seaters into LHR. Had a go on BMI staff, when I was in LHR IRL, how they could dare fly EMB-135s into that place, and use the few space available for their s***ty little planes. Didn't listen to their reply, called the scum for doing so, and that is what everyone is, that flies these planes into LHR.

Okay, this needed to be said, ruined my mood for this day, to see more of you leftists trying to ruin world's economy, even in simulations.


I think playing AWS is just turning more and more into a noob war of who can fly the smalles plane on the furthest route, and ruin as many normal planes as possible.... Banning magic carpets was done fast, how long is it gonna take to ban frequency raping? Already took too long so far.


cheers,
Jona L.

Just gotta say, I disagree with the BMI comments.  They fly two ERJ 135s in 5 minutes between each other to count it as one slot... not exactly slot hogging.  (e.g. EGCC -EGLL where the two ERJ 135s take off within 5 minutes of each other and land within 5 minutes of each other usually)

And I disagree in general, if a airline wants to fly into LHR and there are slots available, and they purchase the landing rights, let them, that is their business they were the first ones there let them be the ones to use it.  Its a free country thats the beauty of it 

[stevecree]

I think this is getting a bit mixed up.  Using small a/c into big hubs is fine -where they are supposed to fly to i.e MAN - LHR.  Just look how many ERJ/CRJ's there are at ORD or ATL.  Yes they take up slots but there is no reason why these flights should not operate - they feed big airlines long haul services from the regions.  

Using a Regional Jets/320's/737's (but 757's are allowed in my book) seventeen times a day with a tech stop across the atlantic is what annoys folk, and kills a/c that would normally fly such routes i.e.777 and 744's etc, which is admittedly wrong.

That said, frequency should count as a reason why more pax fly with you.  It is a convenience to the consumer offering flexibility and choice, therefore I would expect in RL that 5 x daily 757's would take a lions share of the market against a couple of competing daily 744's for instance, as long as price was the same....which is a factor hugely over looked in this game as most people buy based on one main factor...how much its gunna cost em and they could not careless if its on a triple 7 or a hand glider !!

[Pilot Oatmeal]

I think this is getting a bit mixed up.  Using small a/c into big hubs is fine -where they are supposed to fly to i.e MAN - LHR.  Just look how many ERJ/CRJ's there are at ORD or ATL.  Yes they take up slots but there is no reason why these flights should not operate - they feed big airlines long haul services from the regions. 

Using a Regional Jets/320's/737's (but 757's are allowed in my book) seventeen times a day with a tech stop across the atlantic is what annoys folk, and kills a/c that would normally fly such routes i.e.777 and 744's etc, which is admittedly wrong.

That said, frequency should count as a reason why more pax fly with you.  It is a convenience to the consumer offering flexibility and choice, therefore I would expect in RL that 5 x daily 757's would take a lions share of the market against a couple of competing daily 744's for instance, as long as price was the same....which is a factor hugely over looked in this game as most people buy based on one main factor...how much its gunna cost em and they could not careless if its on a triple 7 or a hand glider !!

Well said SAC, however frequency should be turned down a little bit, it is way to influential in this sim.