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Author Topic: Weird DC-8 problem...  (Read 1129 times)

Croatian Airliners

  • Former member
Weird DC-8 problem...
« on: June 07, 2012, 08:08:09 PM »
Hi all,

I am operating a DC-8-53 on a route KOAK-KLGA. A plane can fly up to 4410 NM, and the route is 2226 NM. However, when flying KOAK-KLGA everything is normal, but on a KLGA-KOAK it is limited to 7 pax!!! Why?!? I have big losses because of that...

>Thx in advance!

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2012, 08:12:23 PM »
1. You are going westward.You need more fuel and thus runway length on departure.

2. Runway length at LGA?

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2012, 08:13:33 PM »

2. Runway length at LGA?

7000 foot runway for a plane that needs 10,000 feet to operate fully loaded will be the source of your problem.
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Offline Jona L.

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2012, 08:16:33 PM »
7000 foot runway for a plane that needs 10,000 feet to operate fully loaded will be the source of your problem.

The problem is, that you will not have enough RWY to LAND the plane. You will need less runway for the T/O, as the plane is not fully loaded, however especially the DC-8 and 707 always need a lot of runway to land, no matter how loaded they are.

I'm not sure of the -53, but at least earlier models did not have thrust reversers, nor have spoilers, thus needed a lot of runway to come to a hold.

cheers,
Jona L.

Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2012, 08:36:00 PM »
The problem is, that you will not have enough RWY to LAND the plane. You will need less runway for the T/O, as the plane is not fully loaded, however especially the DC-8 and 707 always need a lot of runway to land, no matter how loaded they are.

I'm not sure of the -53, but at least earlier models did not have thrust reversers, nor have spoilers, thus needed a lot of runway to come to a hold.

cheers,
Jona L.

Got those mixed up Jona.  The aircraft needs more runway for the T/O because IT IS fully loaded.  It hasn't burnt any fuel yet due to not flying yet... The problem in this situation is the lack of runway TODA (Take off distance available).

Jordan

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 08:53:24 PM »
The problem is, that you will not have enough RWY to LAND the plane. You will need less runway for the T/O, as the plane is not fully loaded, however especially the DC-8 and 707 always need a lot of runway to land, no matter how loaded they are.

I'm not sure of the -53, but at least earlier models did not have thrust reversers, nor have spoilers, thus needed a lot of runway to come to a hold.

cheers,
Jona L.

You are right that IRL the 707's and DC-8's needed a lot of real estate to land for the reasons you mentioned, but in this AWS case the flight is able to operate fully loaded from OAK-LGA but is limited to 7 passengers from LGA-OAK, so the short 7,000 foot runway is limiting the MTOW and therefore the useful payload on departure.
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline Jona L.

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2012, 09:28:20 PM »
Got those mixed up Jona.  The aircraft needs more runway for the T/O because IT IS fully loaded.  It hasn't burnt any fuel yet due to not flying yet... The problem in this situation is the lack of runway TODA (Take off distance available).

Jordan

DC-8/707 are a bit different then modern jets, Jordan ;) at least the DC-8-10/20 and the 707-120/220 needed nearly the same distance to land as they needed for T/O at MTOW, while nowadays most jets need less than 50% of T/O rwy to land...

You are right that IRL the 707's and DC-8's needed a lot of real estate to land for the reasons you mentioned, but in this AWS case the flight is able to operate fully loaded from OAK-LGA but is limited to 7 passengers from LGA-OAK, so the short 7,000 foot runway is limiting the MTOW and therefore the useful payload on departure.

Damn, just saw I switched the routes, thought the OAK-LGA was limited...

Anyways, LGA is not useful for any long routes, due to its runway.
In reality KLGA is limited to max. 1500NM routes due to legal requirements.

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 09:21:11 AM »
To fly LH from LGA you need very specific equipment: the B720B, B707-320B Adv., or B707-320C.
They are designed for better runway performance (especially B720B).
They are gas guzzlers. But then so is the DC-8 that you are using.

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2012, 10:54:02 AM »
I would get rid of the 707 and dc8. They're cursed

Offline diskoerekto

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 07:32:39 PM »
if you want to use DC-8, go for -62. It is the best DC-8 variant for short runways. Some 707s tend to do better on short runways than DC-8s though. On the other hand, you can use more modern planes for LH in DoTM. 757s if you want to p*** people off or 767s if you need real range. 3-engine LH planes such as DC-10s or L-1011s will do good, too.
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Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 08:13:36 PM »
if you want to use DC-8, go for -62. It is the best DC-8 variant for short runways. Some 707s tend to do better on short runways than DC-8s though. On the other hand, you can use more modern planes for LH in DoTM. 757s if you want to p*** people off or 767s if you need real range. 3-engine LH planes such as DC-10s or L-1011s will do good, too.

Why are 757s good for p***ing people off?

Offline lunchbox

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2012, 11:27:41 PM »
Why are 757s good for p***ing people off?

757's are good for p***ing people off due to their decent range of about 4000nm.  Which means you can run those suckers from the East Coast of the U.S. to many destinations in Europe, and run more frequency than the 747/767/777, etc. ;D

To really p**s people off, run them on the JFK-LHR route :laugh:

Offline Jona L.

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2012, 10:44:32 AM »
To really p**s people off, run them on the JFK-LHR route :laugh:

Works until a real fcker comes along and frequency rapes you with A320 ;)

Offline lunchbox

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Re: Weird DC-8 problem...
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2012, 02:40:44 AM »
Works until a real fcker comes along and frequency rapes you with A320 ;)

 :laugh:

 

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