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Author Topic: Help a Noob  (Read 2330 times)

Offline Airbus101

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Help a Noob
« on: May 30, 2012, 04:43:30 AM »
ok, I've played a few airline sim games before I know SLOW and Patient, and understanding a few game mechanics are key.
my problem I jumped in little too fast, into a crowded hub. and ordered the wrong planes, too many and different types from the start, then read the fourms... opps...
my average load factor is 50% I think thats good for day 1, and my A/C utilization is like 16hrs also great, but mixed the fleet and cant cancel the orders.
I made mistake thought that small planes would have a skewed bonus towards new starting players with a bonus for income that would wear off over time. I WAS WRONG...

So,


OK, so I may be planning a restart in Millennium #4 and I have questions

1.  I originally picked KATL I like it central located with lots of destination choices, but current available seats are 3,700 with only 1800 PAX available sounds like a bad starter location
if I restart what would be a good city with almost NO competition in USA and good loads for this game? OR KATL doable even with that seat availability?


2.  I now understand under 20 seat A/C are for pros only, Ive seen say under 40 is tuff, Currently Boeings are sold out and expensive What A/C should I look for in this game I tried F28, and a TU-134A, A/C suggestions?

3.  Leases and sales:  How do I tell if a lease price is good? what are the % limits low and high of the sale  price?  As I'm new I don't know all the planes are a ripoff or good...
example I got 2 leases a F28 3000 fellowship for 140,000 and a TU 134-A for 65,600  both picked as a blind stab in the dark as I don't know the going rates. both are 90ish% and young

4.  what kind of daily revenues should I hope for in the first few real life days of playing?
currently my F28 makes 49,700 profit a week, and the TU 134-A makes only 23,200 profit

5.  I'm not convinced my airline won't grow, but my lack of a common fleet and poor choices as  Leased 4 new 20 seater and 2 TU-134-A, and 2 TU-134-B's
worries me that it might be a futile attempt?  suggestions keep going or too late?  

6.  It wont let me cancel any of my lease orders it gives me a Error message? not sure what that's about...

7. any senior players up for a mentor, I'm an older player late 30's, I work in the airline business in real life so I know the terms and not a moron, just new to this game and
have to find that sweet spot.

Airbus101


 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 04:54:07 AM by Airbus101 »

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2012, 08:30:46 AM »
Hi Airbus101.

1. When starting out, you can scroll through the various airports and see how competition is based around there. For a confident start, I would suggest at least to pick an airport with no other airline based there. While you are still in the game, you may try to scroll through as well and get an idea of route demand and locations. After a few scenarios, you will become more familiar with it.

2. It is always a difficult decision. Looking at the global stats while in game now may help to see where the used market may offer potential. But generally, at the beginning of a scenario, the used market is emptied out soon, as so many attractive routes leave no room for vacancies.

3. One general orientation may be to compare the value of a/c to the market price on the main screen. Leasing costs are derived from the market price. So if the market price is strongly above the value, you pay a bit more. Or you take a look how your other a/c are performing with what lease conditions attached and compare.

4. Profit per a/c depends on the plane, number of routes, and competition. Difficult to say in general. With a good schedule, your LF should be above 60% at least to break even when leasing planes.

5. Cannot tell from the outside. If you provided more info that would be great. Or try to find a mentor, who is then able to take a look at your airline inside.

6. Perhaps you do not have enough cash in the bank to cancel the lease?

7. Apply on the dashboard screen ingame.

Feel encouraged to ask what you need.

Cheers,
Denis

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2012, 10:43:49 AM »
Hallo Airbus,
you just jumped into this "world" one day ago.You stated for yourself that new games need patience "and so", just to show us you have no patience at all. Instead of reading all available FAQīs and directions and instead of playing demo and beginner worlds you flood this forum with a list of destinct questions how to do things. Working for aviation business may be helpful here, but still this is a complex game rather than a detailed reflection of reality and so has itīs own rules.It really does take patience to get some skill and some lessons to be learned even after you worked yourself through all this help that is already provided, ready to be read.If you like other players to show commitment, you should show it first.Just my opinion.

Offline Airbus101

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2012, 03:10:30 PM »
Hallo Airbus,
you just jumped into this "world" one day ago.You stated for yourself that new games need patience "and so", just to show us you have no patience at all. Instead of reading all available FAQīs and directions and instead of playing demo and beginner worlds you flood this forum with a list of destinct questions how to do things. Working for aviation business may be helpful here, but still this is a complex game rather than a detailed reflection of reality and so has itīs own rules.It really does take patience to get some skill and some lessons to be learned even after you worked yourself through all this help that is already provided, ready to be read.If you like other players to show commitment, you should show it first.Just my opinion.


Wow, exchlbg thanks for the hate mail way to welcome new players to the fourm... 

1. I didn't flood the forum, in fact this is exactly what the forum is for posting messages plus I made a list and put it all in one message.

2. I did log into the beginner world (thanks for asking)  to see how the game operated, and decided that this game was well designed. However I wanted more then 7 days to test stuff.   Additionally I bought 50 credits to show support for the project, even thought I needed far less.

3.  As you  can see from my questions I did infact read the fourms, while I played the game. I'm sorry that I did not spend an entire day or whatever your quota would have been prereading.

in-conclusion NEW people have OLD question that you've heard before I'm sorry if I asked the same question everyone else did before me, but the title said it all if you didn't want to help
please don't read my flooding of the forum post next time.

everyone else THANKYOU for the positive input you posted and send in message fourm

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2012, 04:07:10 PM »
Sorry I can't help ya right now.  Im 4500 miles from home.

I did see a 732 yesterday and got a picture.  It was delivering cargo at POGG.

Feel free to send me a pm if need be and I will get back to you when im sitting at phnl tmrw
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 04:10:02 PM by swiftus27 »

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2012, 04:34:23 PM »
There was no hate involved in my reply.Nice to hear you liked the game so far.But please  have the patience to wait at least a few real world days or game world months how things evolve. And some questions you asked then answer themselves just by using all given information about aircrafts,airports and traffic and by the help of a calculator. You also have the opportunity to seek a mentor by inscribing to a given list.
There is a reason because you should keep the track of demo,beginners and full worlds afterwards, otherwise this game will probably frustrate new players too soon, because going bankrupt is a common thing  even for experienced players.
I donīt like to scare off new participants nor sound snobbish.But funny thing, this is the first time I felt like commenting asked questions this way, because this is the first time I noticed a 1-day player asks for full business concepts in this forum.
I will continue to read everything in the forums and also give comments if I feel so.

Happy landings !

Online Emaw Jones

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 12:43:04 AM »
because going bankrupt is a common thing  even for experienced players.


Thank God!!  I thought it was just me being a stupid noob!!


Offline Airbus101

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 04:38:59 AM »
LOL...

Well my second go at it is going much better.  I'm not hemorrhaging out cash this time
I'm running and still have 4.3 mil in my pocket :) 
I researched markets for 6 hrs before I found an area under served and a reasonable starter airport.
I'm crossing my fingers...

However used market just wont cough up anything fun
I cant find a 737-200Adv or a 727-200Adv to save my life...
DC-10's and DC-9's are non existent there.

and I noticed the New planes like the 757 and 767 are out till like 1984ish

So I'm going to *try* to sit it out and wait for people to swap out their fleet
(I'm trying really hard not to lease or buy a thousand year old 707, my palms are ichy)

well see what tomorrow brings.

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2012, 07:23:38 AM »

So I'm going to *try* to sit it out and wait for people to swap out their fleet
(I'm trying really hard not to lease or buy a thousand year old 707, my palms are ichy)

well see what tomorrow brings.

Whatever you do, do not lease a 707 with these fuel prices. I bankrupted 4 times trying to make the 707s work, before I gave up and, upon the advice of several mentors, switched to Lockheed Tristars and Boeing 727s. They are working out nicely. Kind of hard to find on the used market, but so is any decent plane these days it seems.

You have to check the used market once a day, wait for the good stuff, and do not buy the trash.

Offline Airbus101

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2012, 02:46:59 PM »
Thanks man, I looked at them again and said no way, then saw your post and was like OMG...


now my palms are iching at the 747-200 but there are so many of them available now I figure those are a death sentence too?
also I dont think I have the fleet backbone yet to support one and its routes coming to age.  Im just curious if the are a healthy plane to own or not.


Update: I leased a 727-200Adv fell into an overpriced but only one I've seen and leased it short term.
now I have to wait for 2 weeks for them to deliver it, just fly it here all ready I'm a tiny airline I need it NOW!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 12:06:43 AM by Airbus101 »

Online Emaw Jones

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 12:58:04 AM »
Interesting thread.

This Noob is in his fourth bankruptcy restart, and is very frustrated, Sooooo..........................*pushes mentor button*


Offline swiftus27

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 01:47:14 AM »
I'm gonna get back into mentoring soon.... Shame I'm not in it now as it was my idea.....   gotta take some more a/c photos at PHNL later.   Sorry I haven't been active as much. 

Good thing is that this community generally is very helpful.  Kinda not happy with one response above.  Sami runs a tight ship and deals with unruly elements.  This sim has come a long way in 4 years.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 01:48:08 AM »
Thanks man, I looked at them again and said no way, then saw your post and was like OMG...


now my palms are iching at the 747-200 but there are so many of them available now I figure those are a death sentence too?
also I dont think I have the fleet backbone yet to support one and its routes coming to age.  Im just curious if the are a healthy plane to own or not.


Update: I leased a 727-200Adv fell into an overpriced but only one I've seen and leased it short term.
now I have to wait for 2 weeks for them to deliver it, just fly it here all ready I'm a tiny airline I need it NOW!


Understand the first week (human time) is often boring. 

Offline Airbus101

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 03:17:22 AM »
Swiftus27,

It does not help that I had 4 day off from work to sit watch the mins tick buy read fourms, look at A/C, read more, look at more A/C...
 I realized I looked at A/C stats for like 4+ hrs today...
THEN... I wrote down available PAX number of all airports within 1100 mile of home base to get a better understanding of how demand is spread out. its like 9 pages!

This is when I realized a home base should have international demand TOO... opps... (Noobs, make sure your home base has some international demand or your cutting off a hand.)

every day teaches me a little more.

exchlbg

  • Former member
Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 10:03:25 AM »
I can understand that gathering all helpful information especially if you have to make the first decisions about where to start your airline and what business concept to choose under given situation is very hard. One thing is where to start. I think you are on the right way to invest some work to search for a good place. Other thing is used market. You should not start with tiny or very large aircraft. In the beginning you wonīt fill your planes whatever you do and you wonīt have the money for excessive marketing. Tiny planes canīt earn the personnel costs.
Big planes will generate losses too, because it takes time to fill them and you still donīt have a financial backbone.So I would suggest to keep it mediocre.Beware of flying more than two aircraft types in the beginning, commonality costs will kill you otherwise.
Hope it helps.
Happy landings

Offline Sami

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2012, 10:16:10 AM »
Looked at your airline as I had a moment to spare:

 - you are making the start quite difficult when focusing on small planes, like the DHC-4 this time. Would recommend to focus only on 50-200 seaters to begin with. Makes it a lot easier, as with small planes the profit margins are naturally smaller. But on the other hand from the base you chose there isn't really much demand for large planes .. So you may make it very well work since there are plenty of these small routes and no competition on them! Just add more of the same fleet group planes, and rethink the 727 strategy then.

 - your marketing expenses are very high, on last game week as much as salaries and even some 30% of total sales. Reduce the marketing, you can live with present company image. But don't cut marketing alltogether just take a smaller campaign.

 - 727 seat config is not the best, use also C class and perhaps change Y class to HD seats.

- Your 727 route choices are also very poor, flying to MSF at middle of the night (departures at 01am and 02am..).

- And further, the MSF route has only 20 pax demand, so why route a 727 there? (that is actually against the rules already, you may not supply more than 200% of the demand). And these routes are making downright losses which is visible on route pages.  (but stay away from the LAX route it's so crowded)

- DHC-4 route load factors are not the best but they will improve once your route image gets higher (it's now between 0 and 30 on most routes), takes 6 months or so to reach 100. Has significant effect on sales.

Offline Airbus101

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2012, 02:56:12 PM »
Thanks for your input Sami,

I really appreciate you taking the time to look at a noob.
I didnt even notice the Seating config, opps...
I'm making the suggested changes that I can, but now I don't like my base additionally DHC-4 fleet will run out of range quickly only option would be tech stop and I don't think that's a good idea but Ive never tried one??  , pretty sure DHC-4 + a tech stop = Fail... ??
I leased  the Boeing 727-Adv because it was the hot plane then I went thru and wrote down ALL the available PAX within the range 1890 miles I realized I was only going to be able to run 3 of these planes Tops... another bad decision

How far can I haul 40 PAX back and forth and still make a profit?
Does a  DHC-4 + a tech stop = Fail... ??



sorry about the anti trust, I saw I had some open redeye time open in the 727 so I did a double turn so see how it would preform at night, was curious and its my first 727
(the idea was to compete against myself to see how much of a hit I would take for 1 night, basically see how others are affected when I come into a market.  It was not ment to damage others or break rules soon as I saw the message I deleted them.)

I almost want to reroll and apply what I learned, but I also want to see if I can make the smaller A/C work since I have no competition but I know I'll never be able to afford more of them at this rate.  lol....  this Airport looks so good until I learned a few things.

exchlbg, Thank you for the friendly post maybe you had a bad week, its Friday lets move on...


Looked at your airline as I had a moment to spare:

 - you are making the start quite difficult when focusing on small planes, like the DHC-4 this time. Would recommend to focus only on 50-200 seaters to begin with. Makes it a lot easier, as with small planes the profit margins are naturally smaller. But on the other hand from the base you chose there isn't really much demand for large planes .. So you may make it very well work since there are plenty of these small routes and no competition on them! Just add more of the same fleet group planes, and rethink the 727 strategy then.

 - your marketing expenses are very high, on last game week as much as salaries and even some 30% of total sales. Reduce the marketing, you can live with present company image. But don't cut marketing all together just take a smaller campaign.

 - 727 seat config is not the best, use also C class and perhaps change Y class to HD seats.

- Your 727 route choices are also very poor, flying to MSF at middle of the night (departures at 01am and 02am..).

- And further, the MSF route has only 20 pax demand, so why route a 727 there? (that is actually against the rules already, you may not supply more than 200% of the demand). And these routes are making downright losses which is visible on route pages.  (but stay away from the LAX route it's so crowded)

- DHC-4 route load factors are not the best but they will improve once your route image gets higher (it's now between 0 and 30 on most routes), takes 6 months or so to reach 100. Has significant effect on sales.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 03:05:13 PM by Airbus101 »

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2012, 03:17:36 PM »
I almost want to reroll and apply what I learned, but I also want to see if I can make the smaller A/C work since I have no competition but I know I'll never be able to afford more of them at this rate.  lol....  this Airport looks so good until I learned a few things.

If you want to quickly apply what you have learned, reset. That way you can learn from your mistakes and build on the experience.
As a fellow newbie, my advice is: reset early and often.  ;D

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2012, 04:45:52 PM »
Again, difficult to tell exactly, but in general I would absolutely not recommend to fly the props on technical stops. Further, your DHC4s are pretty old a/c, and they will soon cost you a fortune of money when they run into the bigger maintenance checks. Restart is not a bad option.
Cheers,
Denis

Offline Airbus101

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Re: Help a Noob
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2012, 05:01:28 PM »
DenisG,

all leases are scheduled to end and NOT automatically renew b4 any D checks.
One of the things I did manage to do, and they were all above 85+% repair before I leased them
currently 94%, 82% and 89% so on time is not affected much. and Ive not paid for any additional upkeep to them.
your right I was concerned with the age but their were no young ones :(


I just don't have the experience with the game mechanics to know if a DHC-4 can run 1-2 routes day full, no competition, yet still make a profit after
additional expenses... All assuming the route image developed to 100.  I know it would be crap before that. but I wonder if it would work?

 

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