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Author Topic: Good short/medium haul aircraft?  (Read 1289 times)

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« on: May 14, 2012, 05:50:18 PM »
Hi everyone!

I have just joined this game. Currently I have a couple of leased 707s flying long-haul routes (or on order to fly long haul routes).
But I am looking for a smaller aicraft to fly short-range and medium-range routes (250-1250 nm) with 40-50 pax demand, profitably. I am based in EWR.

In the used market, I haven't been able to find anything that seems to fit this criteria. What I have in mind is something roughly analagous to the modern CRJ-700 or ERJ-145, but obviously those haven't been invented yet.

Can anyone recommend a good aircraft to fly these routes in the current time period? Everything I find seems to be either too small or too big.

Thanks!

Offline ACDennison

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2012, 06:21:56 PM »
DHC-7 is ok, available new only but not too dear... looks like a poor base range, but fitted with a few less (and better seats) they stretch nicely.  Costs are nothing special, nor speed, but they turnaround quickly and don't cost the earth.  Best of the bunch really at the moment.
 

claudietto

  • Former member
Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 02:48:06 AM »
DHC-7? You gonna be kidding...
Fokker F-27 is superior by any angle: more range (+50%), less fuel burn (-50%), same capacity (52 pax) and cheaper to buy!

Offline Troxartas86

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 07:48:08 AM »
Pravda newspaper says Tu-134 is best.  ;D

Offline ACDennison

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 08:41:15 PM »
The F.27 is awesome, but the waiting list is about 18 months - I'm assuming the OP wants something sooner than that!
 

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 11:36:09 PM »
There's usually a lot of used ones lying around in the early DOTM4 market.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline knobbygb

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 01:06:43 PM »
Quote
short-range and medium-range routes (250-1250 nm) with 40-50 pax demand

You really need a turboprop as people have suggested. This will be more profitable than any jet but it pretty much limits you to about 600nm to 700nm max - as you need to keep to minimum three rotations per day and keep the HD seating if possible (so maximum approximately 3hrs flight time).

I'm flying the NAMS YS-11 which is working just fine so, basically, any old junk will do (well, nearly!)  F-27 would be best if you could get them but, right now, I'd go for HS748.  Short production queue, quite cheap, the right size, has the range if you want to go a bit further and will remain competitive for quite a few years.  I used them last time and they were great.

As for the 700nm+, with 40 to 50 demand - forget it.  A jet is too expensive and the turboprop is too slow.  There must be better markets you could aim at until money is no problem later.

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 04:05:15 PM »
As for the 700nm+, with 40 to 50 demand - forget it.  A jet is too expensive and the turboprop is too slow.  There must be better markets you could aim at until money is no problem later.

Thx for the advice. The better markets pretty much satured by ppl who started before me  :P

But I do have several routes I found with 40-50 demand and range <400 nm.
If I run just 1 turboprop to cover them, will that work, or do I need to have at least 2-3 turboprops of the same model, flying different routes to make the economics work, in terms of covering overhead for that model?

Offline RushmoreAir

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2012, 05:24:59 PM »
Thx for the advice. The better markets pretty much satured by ppl who started before me  :P

But I do have several routes I found with 40-50 demand and range <400 nm.
If I run just 1 turboprop to cover them, will that work, or do I need to have at least 2-3 turboprops of the same model, flying different routes to make the economics work, in terms of covering overhead for that model?

In general, you should plan on a minimum of 10 of any fleet group.  If you don't have the routes to support that, it isn't worth getting.  Though keep in mind, that with turboprops, you can often achieve a frequency benefit on routes with 100-200 pax demand (again <400nm).  If your competitor is flying 1x 737, you can fly 2x F.27s and get 66% of the market share, which will result in viable load factors for turboprops.

Offline ACDennison

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 12:17:56 AM »
What Rushmore said ;D

The golden rule for start-ups is ONLY 2 FLEET GROUPS... I see you've started flying 707's (nice enough and cheap now, but watch for rising fuel costs, and servicing costs with airframe age).  So A 50-seat turboprop may be a good second choice if you have lots of routes, if not a ~100 set jet may be better (727/1-11 etc)

The third fleet group will hit you hard in the pocket by doubling fleet costs all all three fleets.  I only get into a third type one I am financially secure, and evem then usually only to dump a previosu group.

E.g: this time I'm in DC-8 / DHC -7 (not disimialr to you perhapes), my thrid will likely be Tristarts or similar to replace my DC-8 fleet, most likely in 3-5 years time.
 

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 04:47:50 AM »
What Rushmore said ;D

The golden rule for start-ups is ONLY 2 FLEET GROUPS... I see you've started flying 707's (nice enough and cheap now, but watch for rising fuel costs, and servicing costs with airframe age).  So A 50-seat turboprop may be a good second choice if you have lots of routes, if not a ~100 set jet may be better (727/1-11 etc)
OK so currently if I have only 1 fleet group (3 x 707), it is economically viable to add a second fleet group (2 x F27)?

The third fleet group will hit you hard in the pocket by doubling fleet costs all all three fleets.  I only get into a third type one I am financially secure, and evem then usually only to dump a previosu group.
:o Seriously, a 3rd fleet group doubles the costs of the first 2 also?? Why?

Offline ACDennison

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Re: Good short/medium haul aircraft?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 12:39:47 PM »
Yes, there is no penalty for the 2nd group - as I say it is simply a matter of decidign what the second needs to be, 50-seat TP or 100-set TF being your most realistic choices.

As for the costs it is a slightly artifical mechanic, but it exisits to stop players grabbing loads of fleet groups to ensure rapid growth, which could be very easily exploited.  It does also represnt the increaed training time etc keping mechanics etc current on multiple types, as well as admin, documentation etc.

Generally 3rd group of airframes (or engines) doubles all fleets costs for airframes (or engines), and the same occurs with the 4th... the 5th and 6th arent as steep, but you need to be very well established for those.
 

 

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