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Author Topic: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia  (Read 1896 times)

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2012, 05:24:12 AM »
My gut says this was most likely pilot error. Either way it is only speculation, it will be a year before we know what really happened. I highly doubt it was a technical problem but more likely Russian pilots being Russian pilots. Thought they were good enjoying the scenery aks for a lower level, they didn't declare a mayday, found themselves in some clouds and whamo! Complacency in a region they didn't know well.

I fear that might pretty wel sum it up  :'(
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

knutm1980

  • Former member
Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2012, 08:01:56 AM »
I recall some pilots crashed and killed the president of Mozambique in the mid 80's. They were drunk.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2012, 11:36:48 AM »
Airbus didn't have a good track record back then (this was the 80s), it was their second plane after the A300... that's the plane that they then built their industry and reputation on.

But you also had the governments basically force the national airlines to buy them.  I'm just saying that you can't compare the two situations.  The Russian/soviet aviation industry has a negative image due to the polish presidents tu154, all the crashes in the middle east, and that there is still anti soviet sentiment.   

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2012, 12:39:22 PM »
But you also had the governments basically force the national airlines to buy them.  I'm just saying that you can't compare the two situations.  The Russian/soviet aviation industry has a negative image due to the polish presidents tu154, all the crashes in the middle east, and that there is still anti soviet sentiment.   

Aeroflot, the national airline, was forced to buy the SSJ as well. I agree there is stigma against the Russian aviation industry, mainly thanks to the efforts of Jona  ::) and Sukhoi is a new entrant to the civilian world of jet aircraft (although their fighters look mean ass).
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

starrymarkb

  • Former member
Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2012, 01:40:00 PM »
But you also had the governments basically force the national airlines to buy them.  I'm just saying that you can't compare the two situations.  The Russian/soviet aviation industry has a negative image due to the polish presidents tu154, all the crashes in the middle east, and that there is still anti soviet sentiment.   

I remember BA only began operating Airbuses when they took over BCal and inherited an order, previously they were one of Boeing's Loyalist customers. It did give them chance to compare the 737 Classic and the A320 and the A320 offered better performance... Boeing launched the 737NG to restore parity.

The A330 was also involved in a crash during testing and again proved itself.

I think the issue with the Russian Aircraft is that they don't offer a clear advantage over competing western types. Most airlines are forgiving of a crash in testing as long as steps are put in place to prevent a recurrence. How does the Sukhoi stack up against the E-Jets? Plus also Embraer are rumoured to be looking at a E19xNEO using the GTF engine which would leave the Sukhoi back at square one

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2012, 08:41:34 PM »
I have, in my opinion, a good answer for this.

Early, computer models were not possible.  No one knew Comets would burst in the sky because squared windows caused extra fatigue. 
 
Fly by wire tech was young and untested in commercial a/c.  Who knew autopilot would overrule the pilot?  Since then the a/c has flown amazingly.  That was a test flight of an early prototype (right?).  The plane was sound.  The plane crashed due to software.

This time, you have the first post soviet russian a/c hitting the market.  It is going after a niche market.   The plane has early issues with its landing gear... gets fixed.   Now you have a supposedly working plane pick up prospective buyers and fly them into a mountainside.   As of now, without the black boxes, we can only assume what happened.  But, the limited market size now coupled with these incidents and from a nation with a less-than-adequate history of making commercial a/c will now put substantial on Sukhoi.  As mentioned above, that engine may be offered on Western made a/c.  That would kill Sukhoi.

Again, my opinion

knutm1980

  • Former member
Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2012, 09:22:11 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-148

Could not this be considered a post soviet a/c too?

Also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-334

total flop..2 built..

But I'm in general agreeing with your sentiments Swiftus.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2012, 10:03:56 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-148

Could not this be considered a post soviet a/c too?


From the wiki page:
5 March 2011: An Antonov An-148 (assembled by Voronezh Aircraft Production Association, VASO, Russia) carrying test registration 61708 crashed during a test flight in Belgorod region, Russia, after an inflight break-up killing all 6 crew members onboard. An investigation commission found that the crew permitted the aircraft to accelerate more than 60 knots above its "Never Exceed" speed in an emergency descent, which led to the inflight break-up.[26] Witnesses on the ground reported a wing had separated from the aircraft in flight. The aircraft was due to be delivered to Myanmar; two of the dead were from that country.


BRILLIANT.  Exceed Vne !!!  

And between both models mentioned, 19 total planes built is bad news.

knutm1980

  • Former member
Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2012, 10:12:21 PM »
Could it be, much like the new chinese plane Comac ARJ21 that there is, as suspected back in the days of the concorde and TU 144, that perhaps its industrial espionage abound, and subsequently, the planes are poor copies? They just have a tendency to look a bit too much like things we already know..shouldn't need to re-invent the wheel to keep them up tin the air.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACAC_ARJ21

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2012, 01:35:19 AM »
http://aeroblogger.com/home/blog/suhoi-superjet-crash-was-taws-turned-off/
Sukhoi Superjet Crash: Was TAWS Turned Off?
Quote
This image has been making rounds of the internet over the last few days. It appears to show that TAWS was switched off before the Sukhoi Superjet flight which crashed in Indonesia on Wednesday. However, some explanation is required of this photo, to avoid misunderstandings.

Firstly, it is important to understand what TAWS is. TAWS stands for Terrain Awareness and Warning System. It is supposed to warn pilots if they are going to crash into the ground (terrain), with sufficient warning time that corrective action can be taken and the plane can be saved.

In the picture above, the TAWS is switched off. This is not normal. There are a couple reasons why TAWS could be disabled:
  • Maintenance had been done on the aircraft shortly before it took off. TAWS could have been switched off by maintenance
  • Pilots disabled TAWS for this flight. This is done sometimes when the pilots are going to be flying close to terrain (for a sightseeing flight or some such thing), and they expect to be able to see the ground and keep track of it at all times. Having TAWS turned on would just result in false alarms which would disturb the cockpit
  • Pilots disabled TAWS for an earlier flight, and forgot to turn it back on
Unlike some other things which are turned off (like the batteries) in this picture, pilots tell AeroBlogger that enabling TAWS is not in a checklist. Pilots are expected to have the aircraft set up in proper configuration before the flight, but mistakes can happen and settings can be missed. If maintenance turned TAWS off or the pilots had done it earlier, it is plausible that they would have forgotten to turn TAWS back on.

...
Editor of AeroBlogger
If you're interested in blogging on aviation 3x/month or more:
http://AeroBlogger.com/Write

Offline ARASKA

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Offline swiftus27

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Offline swiftus27

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Re: Russian plane disappears in demonstration flight in Indonesia
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2012, 12:22:17 PM »
Okay, so there's news outlets in Russia which claim the US brought down the plane and have started a criminal investigation.

Their claims are that American interests were involved.   

Sorry to have to ask this, but isn't the market that Sukhoi is breaking into dominated by Brazilian and Canadian firms?  (Embraer and Bombardier)...

I don't think Boeing makes a plane that small.

 

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