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Author Topic: it's hard to join the game  (Read 3968 times)

Men

  • Former member
Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2012, 08:26:20 AM »
They're not bad... leasing is low, personel not that much... fuel almost nothing and the pax love the frequency. I think it's stupid, but as I sayed, I'm now optimizing towards how the game works  ;)
I first tryed to do it with M90 -> that was completely impossible!

I tested to start with 1 777-300 and It work very well.  :)

Offline Infinity

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    • Aviation Awareness
Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2012, 08:51:48 AM »
Well operating out of LHR is easymode this stage of the game. Just sayin'.

Men

  • Former member
Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2012, 08:56:22 AM »
Easy mode = less slot + more competitor + high fuel price  :'(

Offline Infinity

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    • Aviation Awareness
Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2012, 11:24:39 AM »
Competitors who can only base 100 aircraft there. Plus ultra-high premium demand. Easy2k

Men

  • Former member
Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2012, 12:21:08 PM »
Competitors who can only base 100 aircraft there. Plus ultra-high premium demand. Easy2k
I can say it is harder than I was base in Lima, Peru with 7 minor and 2 major airline and >>> I said start an airline with 1 777-300 is possible <<< That's my point.  :)

Offline meiru

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Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2012, 02:38:33 PM »
Ok, I see your ATRs now on LAX-SFO route.  27x per day ATRs on a route that was already > 100% supplied.  It may not bankrupt you, buy I doubt you will make enough profit to enable you to grow.

Well... I could imagine, that I could even fly more often and make your 320s unprofitable in the end... maybe I wouldn't make any profit as well at that point, but for shure not losing money... that all come, because the game only knows one quality measurement: frequency... (ok, there's also a negative measurement: CI ... but the only that can give you a positive boost is frequency...)...

But to be honest... the real world also knows only one method to compare products: the price. It's ruining all markets (at least it did ruin the markets in Europe) ... but... that's it... since the 80s everything went in this direction and as long as it's cheap, people are buying it... even if they don't need it... and quality dies. So, maybe it's not that unrealistic... let's produce cheap crap, since that's all you can sell today!  ;D

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2012, 04:50:29 PM »
Well... I could imagine, that I could even fly more often and make your 320s unprofitable in the end... maybe I wouldn't make any profit as well at that point, but for shure not losing money... that all come, because the game only knows one quality measurement: frequency... (ok, there's also a negative measurement: CI ... but the only that can give you a positive boost is frequency...)...

If you are trying to prove a point, you got it.  Most people know about the frequency thing.  It's a tactical level weapon in your arsenal.  But even the best tactics will not be effective with less than ideal strategy.  On strategic level, you pick your adversaries.  Picking me as an adversary gains you nothing so it is not a good strategy.

But to be honest... the real world also knows only one method to compare products: the price. It's ruining all markets (at least it did ruin the markets in Europe) ... but... that's it... since the 80s everything went in this direction and as long as it's cheap, people are buying it... even if they don't need it... and quality dies. So, maybe it's not that unrealistic... let's produce cheap crap, since that's all you can sell today!  ;D

There are reasons why Sami limits the effect of price.  Suppose the price in AWS is as important as in real life, and pax pick the lowest priced flights.  Now suppose I were to lower the price of LAX-SFO to $1.  It would have no effect on my airline, since LAX-SFO route is less than 1% of my revenue.  It would kill your airline since this route is probably 65% of your revenue.  Your airline would be dead within a month, after which I would just set the price back to normal...

Offline meiru

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Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2012, 06:42:36 PM »
it's not against you ... I simply want to try out, how far you can go and what the limits are ... and LAX-SFO is (in my optinion) the best route to test that... it's crowded and short and... simply a good test object for me... I had to declare bancrupcy already so many times... now I want to know, how to run a profitable airline... but such an airline has to be built correctly... so, what I mean is, that you could start with A320, 737, MD80/90 and make profit on a route, but you will lose all, if someone enters the market with "the perfect plane" for this route... and then you can't react anymore... that's what happended with my other airlines all the time... once I flew EWR-BOS extremely profitable and then somebody entered with Dash-8's ... and my 737's ruined me... as well as for EWR-YYZ and many other routes...

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2012, 06:57:36 PM »
it's not against you ... I simply want to try out, how far you can go and what the limits are ... and LAX-SFO is (in my optinion) the best route to test that... it's crowded and short and... simply a good test object for me... I had to declare bancrupcy already so many times... now I want to know, how to run a profitable airline... but such an airline has to be built correctly... so, what I mean is, that you could start with A320, 737, MD80/90 and make profit on a route, but you will lose all, if someone enters the market with "the perfect plane" for this route... and then you can't react anymore... that's what happended with my other airlines all the time... once I flew EWR-BOS extremely profitable and then somebody entered with Dash-8's ... and my 737's ruined me... as well as for EWR-YYZ and many other routes...

That's a good point.  But you have to also consider where your destinations are.  SFO is similar to LAX.  The market for under 500nm is very limited.  Probably less than 5% of potential revenue.  Which is why I didn't bother with fleet type that is ideally suited for this small niche (ATR, Q400, Saab).  So even if I completely cede this market to others, it will not make a big difference to my airline.  On a more crowded Eastern part of the US and in Europe, you need this type of short range aircraft a lot more, to "game" the system by exploiting 2 tools:
- frequency
- slot hogging

Offline meiru

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  • Posts: 745
Re: it's hard to join the game
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2012, 07:23:44 PM »
I saw that too... but my experiment is not finished... I'll also try other planes for other distances and other passenger demand... so, I think, there is only one "perfect" plane for every type of route and I'd like to find it...

 

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