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Author Topic: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption  (Read 1786 times)

Offline mark320

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A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« on: March 21, 2012, 09:58:06 AM »
Did anyone notice that the A350-800 in the game is smaller than the B787-8 and the A350-900 uses almost the same amount of fuel per hour as an A330-300 and the latter carries more passengers too! What progress is that? This obviously doe not reflect the aircraft in RL.

Regards,

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 10:33:16 AM »
Did anyone notice that the A350-800 in the game is smaller than the B787-8 and the A350-900 uses almost the same amount of fuel per hour as an A330-300 and the latter carries more passengers too! What progress is that? This obviously doe not reflect the aircraft in RL.

Regards,


You need to compare apples to apples:
- on passenger seating, compare HD max
- on fuel consumption, take into account faster speed of A350.  You will see that A350 is more fuel efficient than the single most efficient aircraft of 330/340 line, namely A333
- A350 has extra 3000nm range over A333.  The extra range does not come free.  It comes at expense of carrying capacity and fuel consumption.  With this in mine, if you look at pax capacity and fuel consumption, they look even better...

Offline mark320

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 02:03:03 PM »
Thanks for the reply.

In fact I always compare HD seating for checking efficiency. In HD config the A350-800 indeed is smaller than the B787-8, which does not reflect reality whosoever. The speed difference is pretty minimal and the difference between the A333 and A359 should be in the order of 15% taking into account range. I am sure neither Airbus nor Boeing would start a clean sheet design with less than 15% difference in DOCs from the superseded model range. Don't forget that in AWS there is no advantage on the longer maintance intervals on the newer aircraft such as the B787 and A350 and they cost way more than the older models. So fuel consumption (which is around 40% in DOCs for LH aircraft) should be a determining factor when selecting aircraft.

What say you?

regards,


Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 03:28:13 PM »
I say compare 350-900 with 340-500.  Similar pax capacity, similar range, 32% better fuel consumption.

Online ZombieSlayer

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2012, 03:42:04 PM »
I say compare 350-900 with 340-500.  Similar pax capacity, similar range, 32% better fuel consumption.

+1

And compare the A350-800 with the A332 (as this is the closest to a one for one trade you will get) the aircraft is 21% more fuel efficient. Compared to the 763ER the A350-800 is 32% more efficient.

Also, since I will be using the A358 and 359 on some former 767-400 lines as well, the 358 is just 4% less fuel efficient than the 764 (but with 3200nm additional range) and the 359, an almost identical plane capacity wise, is 3.5% more fuel efficient and again with 3200nm more range.

Now, if only they had launched 3 years earlier...

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2012, 03:48:28 PM »
Also, since I will be using the A358 and 359 on some former 767-400 lines as well, the 358 is just 4% less fuel efficient than the 764 (but with 3200nm additional range) and the 359, an almost identical plane capacity wise, is 3.5% more fuel efficient and again with 3200nm more range.

If you take speed into account, 359 is actually 1.2% more fuel efficient than 764, and that is with extra 3200nm range, as you mentioned.

Riger

  • Former member
Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2012, 04:50:50 PM »
Geeks !!







 ;)

Offline Jona L.

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 05:22:24 PM »

Online ZombieSlayer

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2012, 05:26:27 PM »
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Sulton111

  • Former member
Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2012, 08:48:29 PM »
i am always thankful to the so called 'geeks' as without them id be rubbish at this game so thank you 'geeks' or as i prefer to call you the heart and soul of the game  :)

Offline mark320

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2012, 09:59:08 PM »
He he, I like the twist on events the thread has taken! however, back on topic, the A350-800 should be about 3 m longer than the B787-8 and 1 economy seat wider with the same seat width in economy. Boeing quotes 210-250 seats and Airbus quotes 270 seats, the opposite of what AWS shows. When I have sometime I would like to compare actual utilisation vs HD seating capacity vs fuel vs maintance costs to give me a cost per hour for the fleets. I know that fuel consumption has too many variables to consider as is but I still think that the capacities should actually be inverted.

Is it the final verdict of said "geeks" ?

regards,

Offline NovemberCharlie

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2012, 10:39:36 PM »
Do mind that the boeing quote is three class. at least AFAIK

regards,
NC

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 10:50:07 PM »
There were some adjustments made to 787, since in prior games (MT4 and before) it was essentially worthless.  Far worse than 764.  As a result, both 788 and 789 were adjusted based on the latest Boeing documentation.  IMO, 788 may be a bit better than it should be, 789 is a bit worse than it should be.  Averaging the 2, the fleet overall may be right on the money.

As far as A350, I don't think any adjustments were made to it.  Maybe when more actual data emerges, there may be a case to make some adjustments...

Offline mark320

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2012, 10:54:19 PM »
Do mind that the boeing quote is three class. at least AFAIK

regards,
NC

So is the A350 quoted seating. To give a range of seating is 250 to 275 seats.

Length and width are what they are so I cannot think how the smaller aircraft can have a bigger capacity. Even compared to the A330, it is not worth it! I don't think this looks right.

regards,

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2012, 11:06:03 PM »
So is the A350 quoted seating. To give a range of seating is 250 to 275 seats.

Length and width are what they are so I cannot think how the smaller aircraft can have a bigger capacity. Even compared to the A330, it is not worth it! I don't think this looks right.

regards,

At one point, Sami started a project to collect the actual cabin area, which would be the most reliable measure.  Unfortunately, collecting data turned out to be next to impossible...  So we are stuck with various inconsistent data from manufacturer specs.  A350 is still the best aircraft in the game, if you consider the complete specs, including range, but it comes very late in the game...

icelord

  • Former member
Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2012, 11:39:47 PM »
... but ... 358 fly only on late 2015, less than 4 years to the game end.

Sigh! For me, it's not a good business order this AC.


Offline mark320

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2012, 09:18:02 AM »
Now the A350-1000 has been launched too we see a 90 economy seat difference from the B777-300ER :'(

Well it's part of the game, some day it will be improved!

regards,


Online ZombieSlayer

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2012, 11:46:26 AM »
Now the A350-1000 has been launched too we see a 90 economy seat difference from the B777-300ER :'(

Well it's part of the game, some day it will be improved!

regards,



The only "firm" info on seating capacity is on Airbus' page where it says the A350-1000 will carry up to 440 pax in an all economy layout. There is no public data on cabin length and there has not been an evacuation text done to certify the capacity of the aircraft, so at this point all data is "best guess." Should all three A350's be a bit larger based on what Airbus has discussed publicly about the A350? Yes, I think so, but until the firm data is available we have to make do with an at least good representation of what the aircraft will actually do.

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline mark320

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Re: A350 seating capacities and fuel consumption
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2012, 04:39:20 PM »
I agree Don, it would be nice to have them larger as publicly discussed and also by inference using fuselage length. However at the the end it's a game after all.

I need to fine tune my strategy though ;)

regards,

Mark

 

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