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Author Topic: JA6 or no?  (Read 2981 times)

Offline ZombieSlayer

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JA6 or no?
« on: February 24, 2012, 09:48:04 PM »
Just wondering, Sami, will we be looking at a JA6 coming up or will the next game world be one of the ultra long game worlds?

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline alexgv1

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2012, 02:32:20 AM »
Quote from: jetwestinc link=topic=38206.msg204068#msg204068
ultra long game worlds?

 8)

I think we know. I'd put my money on it
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Online Sami

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2012, 02:39:32 PM »
I am still a bit undecided if the world will indeed be the ultralong type or not. It does have some risks still, and things missing.

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 06:36:26 PM »
I am still a bit undecided if the world will indeed be the ultralong type or not. It does have some risks still, and things missing.

Fair enough. I have mixed feelings about the ultra long game worlds, TBH, so another normal game would be fine by me  ;D

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline psw231

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 08:21:00 AM »
I am still a bit undecided if the world will indeed be the ultralong type or not. It does have some risks still, and things missing.
  If we are unable to do a long game for the next world could we please switch up the JA dates somewhat like was done with MT.

Offline Dasha

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 09:37:40 AM »
I am still a bit undecided if the world will indeed be the ultralong type or not. It does have some risks still, and things missing.

I am positive towards ultralong gameworlds but I do as well see some issues. Like the number of players, the monopoly some big players will get, massive order queues and stuff like that. I think until everything like that is sorted out, a normal world would work better, although I am up for trying :)
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything

L1011fan

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 12:14:06 AM »
I would be happy with a shorter game this time around.

Offline diskoerekto

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2012, 08:51:30 AM »
I am all for the ultra long game worlds. Let's give it a shot!
<img src="http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Banner/107/576/" alt="" width="450" height="90" border="0" />

mar88

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 06:57:32 PM »
I am game for trying a long one, even with potential problems.
Or do both, I'd play both.

Offline Jona L.

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2012, 11:54:03 AM »
I am all for the ultra long game worlds. Let's give it a shot!

Exactly, if we don't try we won't see what the problems will be. We should go for it, and post any problems we see, as we see them, and not speculate what it may be...

cheers

Offline andriitis

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2012, 01:52:03 PM »
I'd like either an ultralong game world, or a shorter one with faster game days.

moberg

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2012, 07:38:08 PM »
Hi, I have been playing the beginners world to try and get a hang of the game in anticipation of the JA reset, which I am looking forward to.  When people talk about an ultra long game would that be something like a normal game that goes from 1955-2020, or are there other differences?

Online Sami

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 10:02:57 PM »
Exactly that, 1950s to 2020+.

You can search with that title from feature req. forum for talk and thoughts on that topic.

Offline knobbygb

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2012, 11:33:02 PM »
I'm kinda looking forward to an ultra-long world too, but I can also see the many potential problems people have raised.  The current worlds seem to stagnate after a few years anyway - would a long world be more or less likely to do this? I'm undecided.  And it's a very long experiment if it doesn't work out.

As a more realistic idea - how about varying the dates a little.  I know they differ a bit each time but there are certain fleet types that just aren't worth bothering with because they come too late. For example, in JA nobody seems to bother much with A300s and people are still flying 200+ fleets of Caravelles when there are 100's of 737-200Adv sat idle.  This time around I am rich enough that I wanted to play with a few Concordes but they arrive on scene just one year before the end of the game so I can't be bothered. It'd be nice if the next JA ran into the early 80's. 

How about a compromise - a 30 year world?

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2012, 05:23:17 AM »
I'm kinda looking forward to an ultra-long world too, but I can also see the many potential problems people have raised.  The current worlds seem to stagnate after a few years anyway - would a long world be more or less likely to do this? I'm undecided.  And it's a very long experiment if it doesn't work out.

As a more realistic idea - how about varying the dates a little.  I know they differ a bit each time but there are certain fleet types that just aren't worth bothering with because they come too late. For example, in JA nobody seems to bother much with A300s and people are still flying 200+ fleets of Caravelles when there are 100's of 737-200Adv sat idle.  This time around I am rich enough that I wanted to play with a few Concordes but they arrive on scene just one year before the end of the game so I can't be bothered. It'd be nice if the next JA ran into the early 80's. 

How about a compromise - a 30 year world?


One issue with the ultra long game worlds that I am not sure has been addressed is fleet renewal. If we start in 1950 and continue for 70+ years, players will be faced with the big props of the pre jet era, first gen jets (Caravelles, Comets, DC-8's, 707's), second gen jets (DC-9, 737-1/2), First gen widebodies (DC-10. L-1011. 747, A300 classic), third gen narrow bodies (A320, 737-3/4/5, MD-80/757) second gen widebodies (767, 744, A330/340, A300-600), fourth gen narrow bodies (E-Jets, 737NG) and third gen widebodies (787/A350/A380) which is a LOT of fleet renewal even if certain generations are skipped. With the huge penalty for carrying a fourth fleet type, this will drive costs sky high, especially if the "legacy costs" that were discussed in other threads are included.

A possible solution is implementing a "fleet retirement" classification with regards to commonality costs where as long as a fleet type is constantly decreasing in numbers (maybe no less than 1% of fleet removed per game month) the fleet type does not cause a penalty. For example, I have a fleet of 737-200's that I am replacing with 737-300's in the 1980's. My 150 strong fleet of 732's is being replaced at a rate of 1 every 25 days as new 733's arrive, so instead of a penalty of up to 300% (as was noted in MT5 and JA5), all the airline will pay is the normal costs.

Thoughts?

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline psw231

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2012, 09:09:47 AM »
 Somewhat like what jetwest is pointing out, the biggest problem I can see with ultra long games is the lack of appropriate slots for fleet renewal when changing from a 90 min turn to a 180 min turn time or any of many variations of this that are available. I would still love to see these games become available but I can only imagine the number of complaint threads when things don't go the way people want.
 And yes a BIG +1 to varying the dates on game worlds to keep it more interesting.

Offline ArcherII

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2012, 11:09:04 AM »
One issue with the ultra long game worlds that I am not sure has been addressed is fleet renewal. If we start in 1950 and continue for 70+ years, players will be faced with the big props of the pre jet era, first gen jets (Caravelles, Comets, DC-8's, 707's), second gen jets (DC-9, 737-1/2), First gen widebodies (DC-10. L-1011. 747, A300 classic), third gen narrow bodies (A320, 737-3/4/5, MD-80/757) second gen widebodies (767, 744, A330/340, A300-600), fourth gen narrow bodies (E-Jets, 737NG) and third gen widebodies (787/A350/A380) which is a LOT of fleet renewal even if certain generations are skipped. With the huge penalty for carrying a fourth fleet type, this will drive costs sky high, especially if the "legacy costs" that were discussed in other threads are included.

A possible solution is implementing a "fleet retirement" classification with regards to commonality costs where as long as a fleet type is constantly decreasing in numbers (maybe no less than 1% of fleet removed per game month) the fleet type does not cause a penalty. For example, I have a fleet of 737-200's that I am replacing with 737-300's in the 1980's. My 150 strong fleet of 732's is being replaced at a rate of 1 every 25 days as new 733's arrive, so instead of a penalty of up to 300% (as was noted in MT5 and JA5), all the airline will pay is the normal costs.

Thoughts?

Don

What scares me is when trying to transfer routes you are serving on a 7-day sched when replacing fleets. I wouldn't last ONE fleet replacement.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2012, 11:22:37 AM »
A possible solution is implementing a "fleet retirement" classification with regards to commonality costs where as long as a fleet type is constantly decreasing in numbers (maybe no less than 1% of fleet removed per game month) the fleet type does not cause a penalty. For example, I have a fleet of 737-200's that I am replacing with 737-300's in the 1980's. My 150 strong fleet of 732's is being replaced at a rate of 1 every 25 days as new 733's arrive, so instead of a penalty of up to 300% (as was noted in MT5 and JA5), all the airline will pay is the normal costs.

Thoughts?

I agree because why would an airline spend more money on spare parts inventory if they want to reduce it for: 1) less future aircraft needing them and, 2) they want to actually use the final parts and let stocks go down. Also why would they train more crew on a soon obsolete fleet type, if need pilot arrive they can get type rated on another aircraft and they can simply bring in type rated pilots if needed for the interim period. That leaves only administrative costs as that stay I imagine, to keep the paperwork in order. At least these fixed maintenance and staff training costs should go down if not diminish.

What scares me is when trying to transfer routes you are serving on a 7-day sched when replacing fleets. I wouldn't last ONE fleet replacement.

Me neither, scary thought. Something would need to be done about this, then I can use my narrowbodies more efficiently too.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline knobbygb

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Re: JA6 or no?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2012, 03:37:35 PM »
For me, it's the fleet renewal that keeps the game interesting after that first mad rush when you've covered all the available routes. 

Knowing you MUST renew two or three times might make the game more tactical - thinking ahead to increased turn times etc., planning the future fleet more carefully to make this easier, balancing your slot requirements by retiring more more a/c as you add bigger ones etc.  Personally I'd enjoy all this but then I'm a totally obsessive perfectionist with not much of a life (in the winter at least).  Isometimes change up my fleet half way through the game for the hell of it - just to keep things interesting.

As for commonality - it isn't such an issue in the earlier time periods at least.  In JA I'm quite happy to fly 8 or 10 fleets as required and still make LOADS of cash.  Things get harder as time goes on but this will add a natural increase in difficulty and challenge as the game progresses.  Renewing only one or two fleets at a time (another challenge) shouldn't have a huge impact.



 

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