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Author Topic: Used Aircraft Market  (Read 10356 times)

Offline JumboShrimp

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  • Posts: 5992
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #100 on: December 30, 2011, 12:40:27 PM »
Can't agree with this approach at all, as it will kill this game totally.
Start a new MT half way through a current MT will just see the bottom half of players leave in droves, leaving the top half with no competition and more earnings than they know what to do with.....keep repeating this cycle equals boredom and loss of game interest.
If you don't think this will happen just look at what happens to Jet Age when MT starts....mass exodus.

Maybe you should be aware of where competition comes from.  Certainly not from the bottom half.  I made it a point to count in MT5.  Here are some stats mid way through MT5:

Top 1 airline = Bottom 198 airlines combined
Top 2 airines = Bottom 254 airlines combined
Top 3 airines = Bottom 280 airlines combined

of total of 429 airlines.
http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,34106.msg183600.html#msg183600

So bottom 3/5 of players has really negligable effect on competition.

What really provides competition is mid size to large size airlines fighting it out amongst themselves.  My suggestion back than (and now) would be the same as Dutchgliders about opening a new game world midway through the MT(x) world when a new MT(x+1) would be started.  And when that happens, all basing limitations are removed in the MT(x) world.  That way, the survivors of MTx world can fight it out among themselves, providing a lot more competition than the departed players provided.

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #101 on: December 31, 2011, 03:39:46 AM »
Great idea Jumbo!

forsberc

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #102 on: December 31, 2011, 06:52:17 AM »
I really like Jumbo's idea. This has lots of merit, though it would be very cutthroat and very interesting to watch.

tm07x

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #103 on: January 02, 2012, 07:11:16 AM »
You are an idiot!
Dont you understand that if something changes to your advantage and helps you.... will also help the other 649 airlines in the game world and you would be in the same situation??

If you wake up tomorrow and there were hundreds of brand new airplanes that you need and at a price that you can afford, then you would have more planes, but so would the other 649 airlines. So the additional planes and the additional competition would cancel each other out, and you would be left with the same lousy strategy and problems that make you angry right now. While you complain about the used market (as if it were the reason why airlines fail) your competitors are spending money to get new planes delivered many years from today. So in 5 years, when you finally get a hold of 10 s***ty planes... your competition will have 100 new and fue efficient ones that will bankrupt you in months.

The used market is not bad... is just not good to you today; too many airlines chasing to few planes. So just do one of the following: 1- learn from your mistakes and change your strategy 2- go play on a different web site (and you'll find out that they all suck) 3- Shut up

[MOD EDIT] it's NOT equal to the other 649 airlines as it is now. Playing the refresh game or constant used market monitoring pays off too much.

Having a system where AC are simply based on a points or a "slot" system would avoid the need of having to sit and monitor the used market. [MOD EDIT] you would argue that it benefits 649 other players just as much. But in reality it doesn't, it's a disadvantage for those who are used to spending a lot of time waiting for planes to appear, and it's an advantage to those who don't.

By your response you're one of those who don't have a job and get to spend 24 hours a day monitoring the used market. Now, that's all well and good. But it removes the skill from the game and puts too much of an emphasis on acquiring equipment.

I don't know how many ways this can be explained to you. But those are just facts.

A system where you can get airplanes easier when you start up later in the gameworld would also make the gameworld more attractive for new players. cus as it is now, new players are reluctant to join after the game is a couple of months old because it's impossible to compete with those who have been able to secure new airplanes.

There is no realism in 650 airlines starting up at the same time, so if you want to make the game all about plane acquisition rather than shaping and perfecting your own playing strategy, then fine! I'm not gonna argue with you.


« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 07:27:14 PM by Sigma »

forsberc

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #104 on: January 02, 2012, 09:33:55 AM »
I simply don't understand how these conversations/ forum topics get so heated... :(

Offline razzbc

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Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #105 on: January 02, 2012, 10:07:06 AM »
have you seen how much money some of these airline CEO's make?

 :D

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #106 on: January 02, 2012, 03:37:47 PM »
Now available:
3x Avroliner 100 at $800.000 per calendar month  (yes, that is less then $2 per seat per week)
2x Fokker F70 at $500.000 per calendar month. (already leased out to smart airline CEO's)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 04:13:10 PM by Maarten Otto »

Offline Bored

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  • Posts: 1188
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #107 on: January 02, 2012, 04:06:54 PM »
Try to behave people!

I for one think it's easier to get used A/C with the current system. You just make a call and *puf* you have aircrafts to lease. No need to refresh the page or F5 anymore. Now I actually have more time to do other stuff...

I don't understand this useless complaining from people who were not prepared for this, as it comes as NO surprise that used aircraft market will be empty soon enough in MT -world...

Iksu

DanDantes

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #108 on: January 02, 2012, 05:07:44 PM »
I simply don't understand how these conversations/ forum topics get so heated... :(

I know, they always have a tendency to get out of control, sad.....

The used market is the way it is, accept it and move on or stop playing and...eeeerrrrr...move on I guess.

Dan

tm07x

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #109 on: January 02, 2012, 05:28:07 PM »
I know, they always have a tendency to get out of control, sad.....

The used market is the way it is, accept it and move on or stop playing and...eeeerrrrr...move on I guess.

Dan

The "problem" isn't that much of a problem. I agree that the new used market is better. But why not try to make the game as good as it can be?

I'm not arguing to change the game so players like you won't do as good. I've always said the game should allow new players to have a standing chance. And to remove a bit of the AC demand problem. In the end the game is about airline management, if there's nothing to manage then there is no game. :)

In games like World of Warcraft new players can join in later, the game for sure is evolving, the best remain the best, but there is still room for casual players and more hardcore players.

I think the idea someone had of opening a new world mid-game is brilliant.
One could argue opening regions slowly would allow a longer and more evolving game.

But the main problem has always been that players quit halfway to play in a new gameworld and the existing gameworld becomes less interesting.

Personally I find that frustrating, not because I'm such a great player, but it takes away a bit of the hard work you put into the game. Doing well because there is a mass exodus of players isn't fun!! it's degrading!

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #110 on: January 02, 2012, 05:47:24 PM »
Maybe ultra long game worlds (1950-2020) will help you solve your problems tm07x  ???
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Dutch

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Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #111 on: January 02, 2012, 06:17:01 PM »
tm07x,

I can fully understand what you mean, and new players will definitely agree with you, but I want to add something to it. Your opinion states that new people should be able to get an airline started in the middle of all experienced ones. Thats nice, but wouldn't it be good for them to learn how the game works, get more experienced and get better at playing it. Me, for example have had to bankrupt so many times when I started. I picked the wrong aircraft, opened the wrong routes etc. But as time past by, I became more experienced, and by now I know how to play the game, which aircraft to order, and how to handle them correctly. I prefer games from which you need to learn, not the games when you'd easily win, without having to do anything, which, in my opinion, gets boring rather quickly. I bet Dantes or SAC didn't win immediately when they started playing (please correct me when I'm wrong), they had to learn too, to become the best nowadays!

A small note I want to add is that it is definitely possible to start halfway the game and still grow big. In the MT5 I started somewhere in 2009/10 and in the end of the gameworld I was among the biggest airlines in the Middle East.

Dutchgliders.

P.S. I still have the opinion that the opening of another world halfway the existing one is good, and I agree with you notes about it.


tm07x

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #112 on: January 02, 2012, 06:29:46 PM »
Maybe ultra long game worlds (1950-2020) will help you solve your problems tm07x  ???

it's not my problem per say, I do well enough to enjoy the game. Until half of the players drop and the game becomes too easy.

tm07x

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #113 on: January 02, 2012, 06:39:00 PM »
tm07x,

I can fully understand what you mean, and new players will definitely agree with you, but I want to add something to it. Your opinion states that new people should be able to get an airline started in the middle of all experienced ones. Thats nice, but wouldn't it be good for them to learn how the game works, get more experienced and get better at playing it. Me, for example have had to bankrupt so many times when I started. I picked the wrong aircraft, opened the wrong routes etc. But as time past by, I became more experienced, and by now I know how to play the game, which aircraft to order, and how to handle them correctly. I prefer games from which you need to learn, not the games when you'd easily win, without having to do anything, which, in my opinion, gets boring rather quickly. I bet Dantes or SAC didn't win immediately when they started playing (please correct me when I'm wrong), they had to learn too, to become the best nowadays!

A small note I want to add is that it is definitely possible to start halfway the game and still grow big. In the MT5 I started somewhere in 2009/10 and in the end of the gameworld I was among the biggest airlines in the Middle East.

Dutchgliders.

P.S. I still have the opinion that the opening of another world halfway the existing one is good, and I agree with you notes about it.

I agree with you 100%. But at the same time, it's not necessarily about new players. it's about all players.
The rush in a new gameworld as we all know it is very important, but if it was easier for any player, on any level to join in later and still be able to compete maybe the gameworlds would have more players throughout the length of the gameworld.

A real life scenario is that many upstarts are able to compete with airlines with the biggest airlines because they don't have to start with the "baggage" that many old airlines have. Wages, fleet commonalities, etc.

As a Scandinavian Airlines captain told me, competing with the upstarts is incredibly hard because their operations are so streamlined from the get-go. He said the most efficient way to restart SAS would be to bankrupt the airline, fire all the people and start with a clean sheet. Because changing the airline around required a lot of money and time. Not saying it's impossible. But you don't see the effort from players joining in mid-game.

Personally I think it has to do with the ease of finding suitable equipment when you join in. While it doesn't have to be a wild-card of 100 free airplanes.

Offline alexgv1

  • Members
  • Posts: 2184
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #114 on: January 02, 2012, 07:25:56 PM »
it's not my problem per say, I do well enough to enjoy the game. Until half of the players drop and the game becomes too easy.

Ok let me rephrase "your problem" to "the issues you raised".

For example there will not be a 650 player rush at the start. Perhaps 50-100 players with capacity added over the decades. Also the games starts will be less frequent so players are less likely to leave a game to join anther as there are several game worlds running parallel. I think this goes some way to address them do you agree?
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Nlgravity

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #115 on: January 02, 2012, 08:07:57 PM »


By your response you're one of those who don't have a job and get to spend 24 hours a day monitoring the used market. Now, that's all well and good. But it removes the skill from the game and puts too much of an emphasis on acquiring equipment.


Two things to you:
1- I AM SORRY that I was harsh and unappropriate to you in my post. My tone was uncalled for and I shouldn't act that way toward any member in aws.

2- you are right, I don't have a "job". Im only the founder and portfolio manager of one of the biggest global macro hedge funds based in NYC. I actually never check the used market. That is why 90% of my fleet is new aircraft. I'm sitting around with my wife and friends and I showed you response  and assumption about my job and it created some ironic laughs.

But most importantly, I'm a great guy and I m sorry about my foul language toward you before.

Nlgravity

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #116 on: January 02, 2012, 08:13:51 PM »
Just to prove to everyone that aws is fair and realistic, I am going to surpass Dante's in both company value and sale revenue. That way you will see that aws is fair game to everyone.

Disclaimer: the above information is not accurate, I will not surpass Dante's in any criteria with the exception of total company debt

Offline Pepto

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  • Posts: 333
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #117 on: January 02, 2012, 09:42:24 PM »
2- you are right, I don't have a "job". Im only the founder and portfolio manager of one of the biggest global macro hedge funds based in NYC. I actually never check the used market. That is why 90% of my fleet is new aircraft. I'm sitting around with my wife and friends and I showed you response  and assumption about my job and it created some ironic laughs.

But most importantly, I'm a great guy and I m sorry about my foul language toward you before.

I think you are the modest guy in here.

Nice to know that someone is playing AWS with his wife and friends. Boys, we have a lady in here. Behave!

BTW: what is macro hedge?

Offline razzbc

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #118 on: January 02, 2012, 09:42:32 PM »
occupy Nlgravity...

(just kidding)


forsberc

  • Former member
Re: Used Aircraft Market
« Reply #119 on: January 02, 2012, 09:43:42 PM »
Quote
Disclaimer: the above information is not accurate, I will not surpass Dante's in any criteria with the exception of total company debt

hahaha. this made me chuckle!

 

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