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Author Topic: Essential Air Services  (Read 1216 times)

Jackson.S

  • Former member
Essential Air Services
« on: October 04, 2011, 06:26:49 AM »
Hi All
I searched for this previously and could not find anything about it so..

Just a small idea to improve the economics of smaller aircraft
as well all know it's not economically feasible to run aircraft less then pretty much 30 seats
however, in real life governments subsidise some of the smaller more feeder line routes (Such as the US Essential Air Service subsidy)
Air transport is a necessity to rural communities. Furthermore some rural communities and towns will subsidize the cost for airlines to
fly there, I know of a few towns in Australia that provide an incentive for regional airlines to fly there

What If we were to introduce it into AirwaySim?
I think it's a feasible idea and will ensure that J31/41's, Navao's, Cessna and Dorneirs get used a bit more and adds a bit more diversity
Doesn't have to be hundreds of thousands just enough to ensure the profitably of regional feeder liners. Say $25,000 or so, of course you would need to categorize
which towns fit what category and such which could be difficult...
Not sure how much work would have to go into it though, we already have airport category's, so we can already limit the towns and the size of the aircraft
that can be flown into them...

Sorry I know the whole regional airline being unprofitable (Or marginally proft) debate continues to rage on but if it adds a bit more diversity and challenge I'm all for it!

Offline Sami

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2011, 02:07:44 PM »
Funny, I just read an article of this and thought the same..

Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 05:08:37 PM »
I think it is a good idea, HOWEVER!  ... ... ... the staff costs do need to change still... as it not a simulation of real life

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2011, 05:13:20 PM »
As opposed to changeing the costs, how about increasing the default prices to small airports?

Jackson.S

  • Former member
Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2011, 05:59:10 AM »
I think all are viable options, 


As opposed to changeing the costs, how about increasing the default prices to small airports?


I'm just browsing through the regional airlines in Melbourne (Flying Metro's, PA-31's) And a typical fare
on a 45 minute flight is $180-$250 one way, meaning that you can create a nice little niche airline providing it spends enough time aloft..
I havn't checked the average airfare in AS for a one way true regional flight with a 7-20 seater.... though I presume it wouldn't be to much....

I think it is a good idea, HOWEVER!  ... ... ... the staff costs do need to change still... as it not a simulation of real life

I think the problem is AS doesn't recognise many of the feederline pilots, are the dispatchers, baggage handlers, fa's, ground handlers, and
sometimes minor maintenance, all rolled into the one person. The staff structure of AS with the variety of positions makes any regional airline far to overstaffed

How much would work would be needed to incorporate one or two of these features into the current version of AS? I imagine staffing would need a complete overhaul for it to work
and ESA and Incentives would be another version away as well. However cheaper gate prices for the Feeders and maybe a increase in price without the negative image or demand drop could be possible? I don't mean to be critical of AS, it's perfect for the larger aircraft just the smaller ones need to be tweaked abit!

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2011, 05:48:07 PM »
I think the problem is AS doesn't recognise many of the feederline pilots, are the dispatchers, baggage handlers, fa's, ground handlers, and
sometimes minor maintenance, all rolled into the one person. The staff structure of AS with the variety of positions makes any regional airline far to overstaffed

Exactly that's the real issue with staffing in small airlines here - the CEO, high and middle level management, as well as the ticketing salesperson is just one woman sat in the office called Jane.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

coopdogyo

  • Former member
Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2011, 03:20:07 AM »
I think that staff should be paid hourly this would allow you to fly a small regional once daily in to an airport and not have to pay a staff member for full time. 

Offline NovemberCharlie

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 12:08:05 PM »
Maybe, to categorize easier, a algorithm can be made:
Remote places with bad road connections to bigger hubs, could give more subsidies than those which are closer to big hubs...
Not sure how if it's possible in the system, but it doesn't seem impossible...

Regards,

Mike

alfkan

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2011, 09:33:56 AM »
Re. above quote: "[i]Exactly that's the real issue with staffing in small airlines here - the CEO, high and middle level management, as well as the ticketing salesperson is just one woman sat in the office called Jane."[/i]

What about personnel cost = 1/5 for small a/c and 1/4 (or 1/3) for medium a/c? I'd love to run a company with small and medium a/c's, but today the cost is too high! :(

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2011, 12:32:42 PM »
A solution would be to determine the staff required by the number of seats available rather then aircraft in use. At the moment the game engine assigns the same amount of staff to 100 seater as a 30 seater, Where the 30 seater could do with 3x little staff on ground handling, customer services and the like.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2011, 12:52:28 PM »
I assume seats available would go by maximum capacity as seats changes airline to airline on configurations?
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Klcosta

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2013, 10:16:09 PM »
I think we should revisit this idea. Most small airports in the game have absolutely no flights maybe for the entire game. After building an airport government would deffinetly subsidize flights to help make a return on the investment. It will make it more fun to create an airline to have subsidies as well as a good option for late starters.

brique

  • Former member
Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2013, 10:45:28 PM »
With the new price structure in effect, small-aircraft operations are more feasable already : if the staff levels could be sorted too, then I dont see the need for these subsidies, as then small-aircraft would be viable enough on their own terms in far more locations than currently possible.

How to implement a separate (which it would probably have to be) staffing structure for small-scale operations is a more problematic matter : what qualifies an airline as 'small-scale' and what happens if it grows beyond those parameters? I suppose it could be done by the player choosing to be classed as such, then certain limits would need to come into effect : category of airports allowed to be based in, type of aircraft that can be operated, perhaps even a cap on aircraft numbers flown, and so on.

I'm a small-plane buff, its the side of the game I prefer, and the game needs some tweaks to accommodate the differences between a 500-plane LH operation and, for example, my 30-seater outfit in PNG : but lets not make it too easy by throwing subsidies at it : (cant believe I just wrote that) : get the staffing sorted and the problems are largely solved, in my view.

Offline Andre

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2013, 08:22:26 PM »
I come from the land of subsidized routes :) Norway has an extensive network of short field airports, and most of the routes are subsidized by taxes and fees generated by the larger hubs. I don't know how this system could be implemented in Airwaysim, but it would certainly add a lot of playability. I think it should be created along with charter flights (also a sort of subsidized flight), and maybe cargo. Then again, I know Sami has been working on a city based demand model for a while so we'll just have to see.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2013, 08:50:44 PM »
I come from the land of subsidized routes :) Norway has an extensive network of short field airports, and most of the routes are subsidized by taxes and fees generated by the larger hubs. I don't know how this system could be implemented in Airwaysim, but it would certainly add a lot of playability. I think it should be created along with charter flights (also a sort of subsidized flight), and maybe cargo. Then again, I know Sami has been working on a city based demand model for a while so we'll just have to see.

The easiest way would be for the "thin" routes, maybe 50 pax or less, to have higher default ticket price.

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Essential Air Services
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2013, 11:20:19 PM »
Every aircraft in game has a class. Very small, small, medium, Large and Very Large.

Would it be that difficult to assign a certain amount of staff for each class? (flight crew counted separate as per current system)

 

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