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Author Topic: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...  (Read 5032 times)

Offline ArcherII

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2011, 02:42:58 PM »
No the B747-100/200/SP/300 wasnt the only widebody a/c to make huge profit during that era. Your forgetting the other two greats. The TRIJETS! DC-10, B747 and not forgetting one of the most beautiful planes ever, the L-1101 Tristar. All were very profitable.

By profitable, I meant for the manufacturers.

Offline Dasha

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2011, 06:43:37 AM »
[trolling]But at the end of the day Airbus is just better than Boeing![/troll]


I know a few planes better than any Scarebus. :P 8)
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything

flightsimer

  • Former member
Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2011, 10:27:16 PM »
Exactly.

And if the B747 is so so much better then why does the 747-8I have 36 orders and the A380 236?
And how many of the large airlines have large orders for the A380? Other than, Emirates, Qantas and Singapore, the majority of the A380 orders are from airlines with small orders. There are also 11 aircraft that most likely will be canceled because the airline has no need for them and never really did and another 6 that the majority believe wont happen. That would be Virgin atlantic (6), KingFisher (5) and Skymark (6) respectively.

BA for example has a 50+ 747 fleet, yet they only ahvhave 12 A380's on order i believe. Its the same reason why the 747-8I has so few airlines signed up right now... they are waiting to seeing real numbers. LH has 20 on order, KE has 5, Air China 5, 9 BBJ's, and 15 announced but not firmed orders from 2 unknown customers (from Paris Airshow). Thats 54 total. So take out Emirates and its only a ~1-3 ratio of current 747-8I orders to A380's... There are supposed to be even more orders for the -8I in the coming months.

As someone else said, the -8I wasnt the main project, it was the -8F... how many A380F's are there on order? Oh right... 0... because it was a horrible frieghter design and was canceled.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 10:34:10 PM by flightsimer »

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2011, 07:18:02 AM »
And how many of the large airlines have large orders for the A380? Other than, Emirates, Qantas and Singapore, the majority of the A380 orders are from airlines with small orders. There are also 11 aircraft that most likely will be canceled because the airline has no need for them and never really did and another 6 that the majority believe wont happen. That would be Virgin atlantic (6), KingFisher (5) and Skymark (6) respectively.

I love the major cop-out arguement against the order numbers is Emirates have a huge order. Emirates and Singapore also have massive orders for the B777. If we are honest the only ridiculously large A380 order is Emirates. Qantas have 20, Singapore 19 and six other airlines have over 10 on order.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2011, 01:08:37 PM »
I love the major cop-out arguement against the order numbers is Emirates have a huge order. Emirates and Singapore also have massive orders for the B777. If we are honest the only ridiculously large A380 order is Emirates. Qantas have 20, Singapore 19 and six other airlines have over 10 on order.

I think his point is that the heavily government subsidized airlines are the ones going for this plane. 

Offline Jackson

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2011, 02:35:49 PM »
Its the same reason why the 747-8I has so few airlines signed up right now... they are waiting to seeing real numbers. LH has 20 on order, KE has 5, Air China 5, 9 BBJ's, and 15 announced but not firmed orders from 2 unknown customers (from Paris Airshow). Thats 54 total. So take out Emirates and its only a ~1-3 ratio of current 747-8I orders to A380's... There are supposed to be even more orders for the -8I in the coming months.


I read somewhere that one reason as to why most airlines had not ordered many B747-8i was due to the engine choice or lack there of. Fleet commonality maybe? BA goes British as much as they can hence RR engines on so many of their a/c. Same as LH and Lufthansa only ordered so few because secretly they are a little sceptic as to which will make more money; A380-800 or B747-8i. It makes sense doesnt it? Why fork out alot of money on a product that may not be the best. Patience and these gigantic airlines can afford to be so.

One last thing, everyone seems to forget that the A380-800 has a bigger brother yet to be born. The A380-900. During the Paris Airshow and even Boeing heard this out, there was conversations about just what airlines wanted and expected from Airbus. BA, LH and VIR are all heavilly interested in ordering the A380-900 which should arrive by 2014/15/16 but knowing the current condition Airbus are in,( lack of profit or slowly reaching their profit margin) they may push it back. We will see this plane and newer airlines will order it. Remember the A380-8 is just the base product. Keep the A340-300 in mind and what came after!!!! Better fuel efficiency and other complaints from customers will be taken onboard.

My conclusion: These to giants (B747-800i and A380-800) are too young to be compared and they are no way near the same size. Its like comparing a B757-300 with a B787-8.

Offline Jackson

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2011, 02:44:47 PM »
Also its true about the Americans. They are not bias against the A380. they are marvelled and love the a/c.

HOWEVER, in the USA, frequency (a topic you guys touched on) adds value. People arent gonna wait for a a plane at specific times through-out the day. As they say, America is the most aggressive country when it comes to business so I cant ever see 10 A380 flights to LAX from JFK happening. More like 40 or so B787 making that route.

BUT, I would love to see America return with a beautiful monter of a jet airliner, with ultra low fuel demand and load, roaring engines just like the old Tristars. Hell, can anyone imagine if Lockheed and Mcdonnel Douglas were to return making heavies? Like super huge tri-jets!!!!

Arrrr no, I just dribbled down my chin...one second...... :P

Offline Jackson

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2011, 02:56:27 PM »
ok..im back,

Boeing can do a better job than the A380 and B747-8. The A380 is a better engineering marvel than the B747-8i but the B787-8 will achieve more than both of them. Its a new design unlike the half-hearted attempt B747-8i. It has an incredible fuel consumption. I wonder if they fitted the Trent 1000 on the A380's and Trent 900 on B747-8i if that would brimg fuel consumption down? Just a thought.

Offline EYguy

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2011, 12:39:58 PM »
I disagree with Swiftus... Except for Air France and Korean Airlines, all the other airlines are definitely NOT government subsidized. If anyone says that Emirates or Etihad are heavily subsidized, I would like to point out that the Royal Faminly in the UAE IS THE GOVERNMENT, but knowing people that work for both airlines at top management level, I can quite confidentely say that there's not government "hand" in subsidizing the above mentioned companies. Of course, they do not have to pay income taxes! :)

Btw, the A380 is an a/c that is economically viable only if you have enough demand and the right business model. It has been developed to be used mainly in asian countries as Japan and Korea, where demand is huge and there are capacity constraints at main airports.

This said, Lufthansa doesn't use the a/c on most of its american routes (except for FRA-JFK) because the peak demand is in summer (when LH switched from A346-B744 to A388), but rather on the routes toward emerging countries (i.e., China, South Africa and Singapore) where flights can not be flown at the airline's convenience (there's a pax demand model to stick to: i.e., all the pax wants to leave the countries of departure after at least half a day at work, or at the end of the day, in order to maximize time utilisation). So the huge capacity is used to increase the offer at the right time...

All these discussion of the economic viability of an a/c, its presumed superiority compared to other a/c are pointless: something that works for an airlines doesn't work for another, so there are no fixed rules as in every business.

IMHO the A380 can be a real cash cow if you know how to use it properly and, above all, where to use it (on which routes) and when. Saying that an airline can make an a/c work is a strange thing to say: it means that Lufthansa could have flown with old russian iron from the sixties, but everybody knows that it would be just impossible. I'd rather say that some airlines KNOW HOW TO MAKE A/C WORK better than other airlines... :)

 

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