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Author Topic: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...  (Read 5042 times)

Offline Jackson

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2011, 02:49:29 PM »
If the A380 is so good, how come no airline in America has got one or ordered one? That means it's good for posh airlines on very long routes. I'm sure it works for behemoth airlines like LH, Emirates, SQ and AF, who can suffer a loss and would never admit the plane is not doing what they expected of it. Qantas makes it work because of the distances. The moment China Southern or BA makes it work, then I'll be impressed, untill that I would not call the A380 a success or better than the 747.

It's a fat ugly whale desperately trying to be a dolphin but so far it's not worked yet.

I'm waiting to be impressed though.

You do know that British Airways is a monstrous airline right? BAW, DLH, UAE etc air all enormous, premium airlines.

GDK

  • Former member
Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2011, 02:55:19 PM »
Does MH count as normal? I'm not even sure what the status is of their A380s... They don't seem to be very optimistic about the plane.  :-\

MH is facing tough competition from AirAsia and SIA, and now AirAsiaX too. They are still running in losses and reconstructing their route networks which saw them cut most of their international long haul flight. That is why their A380 keep on delaying but the first is coming to Malaysia soon.

It is quiet a shame that being one of the first to order the plane and KUL being the first airport upgraded to land the giant(and SIA train their pilots here before Changi can handle the giant), MH still waiting for their first ever A380. But the only man that proven to have the capability to turn MH into profit was called back to another government link company and left the MH flying in losses.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2011, 03:23:20 PM »
If the A380 is so good, how come no airline in America has got one or ordered one?

One word - politics...
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2011, 04:55:38 PM »
One word - politics...

Exactly.

And if the B747 is so so much better then why does the 747-8I have 36 orders and the A380 236?

Offline ArcherII

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2011, 05:32:32 PM »
The A380 doesn't fit into the American airlines (not only AA, just everyone) business, because the whole phiosophy is around the frequency. AF is running the A380 CDG-JFK because is owning the market share, same as BA with LHR-JFK and other airports. To compete, DL, AA, US, UA etc provide smaller capacity and more frequency if able.

Offline Dasha

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2011, 05:48:16 PM »
Exactly.

And if the B747 is so so much better then why does the 747-8I have 36 orders and the A380 236?

One word....


Emirates
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2011, 06:33:14 PM »
One word....


Emirates

146. Still more than 36. Next excuse?

Offline LemonButt

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2011, 07:06:11 PM »
146. Still more than 36. Next excuse?

The San Francisco Giants won the World Series last year, but the Yankees have many, many more fans.  Saying the A380 is better than any other aircraft using these numbers is pointless.  Is the Concorde superior to the Tu-144 because more were ordered/built (20 vs 14)?  No, the Concorde is superior because of its engineering.

These Boeing versus Airbus arguments are really getting old...

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2011, 07:25:59 PM »
The San Francisco Giants won the World Series last year, but the Yankees have many, many more fans.  Saying the A380 is better than any other aircraft using these numbers is pointless.  Is the Concorde superior to the Tu-144 because more were ordered/built (20 vs 14)?  No, the Concorde is superior because of its engineering.

These Boeing versus Airbus arguments are really getting old...

Well not really.

The A380 and B747-8 are much the same thing. Big new widebodies for moving lots of people long distances using as little fuel as possible. The world's big airlines have shown the world which is the best by ordering the A380 in much larger numbers. And we can go down engineering road. Boeing have managed to stretch, for the fifth time, a forty year old design. Airbus have built the world's first double deck commercial jet airliner from scratch that fits all the limits of airports and flies. So they are arguably better engineered and the preferred choice of the industry of the two.

Offline ArcherII

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2011, 07:54:42 PM »
Well, Boeing marketed the 748 mainly as a super cargo airplane. Then added the Intercontinental. They know the VLA niche is already saturated, that's why the first airframe out of Everett was a cargo one, and they have more orders for the cargo version than for the passenger one.
The A380 is a great airplane, that was designed to do things that were impossible before. And it really is doing it's work. But for Airbus it is still a financial pursuit for profit, as it hasn't broken even yet and they need much more frames to get something out of it. While the 747 overall has been a cash cow for years.
The A380 is maybe too big nowadays, and maybe came to the market too soon, or too late (the 747 was the only successfull WB in the 70/80s). But certainly it is very well engineered, as is the 747 that is doing the same job with a 40+ y/o design.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2011, 08:05:21 PM »
One word - politics...

I completely disagree.

There is no point to do this in the US for a few reasons.

1.  Why buy this when you can fly to any other nearby airport for tons cheaper?  This is why LGA and EWR work so well despite being so close together. Both have amazing hubs that fly from that base.  This is why the 767/777 reign supreme.

2.  Airport expansion.  You dont see as much fighting against airport expansion in the USA as you do in many European nations.  Therefore you don't have the slot restrictions.  We do know the A380 burns more fuel per pax than many other a/c.   There are simply too few domestic airports that are at/over capacity.



I'd also like to point out that there havent been many 744s made for USA based airlines either.

Offline Dasha

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2011, 08:21:06 PM »
I never said the 747 was better than the A380. Im just saying that to me, the A380 still has to proof itself. Airlines like Emirates or SQ will make any aircraft work so that for me is not a benchmark. The 747 has proven itself over the last 40 years.

I respect the A380 for the technological marvel that it is but as a commercially viable airliner... I'm still waiting to be impressed. Never in my posts have I said it was a terrible aircraft and that the 747 was in any way better.

Boeing and Airbus serve different markets and they are all good in what they do, but I think calling the A380 a success is a bit premature.
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything

Ansettaddict123

  • Former member
Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2011, 03:48:49 PM »
From an airplane enthusiast's perspective, yes, aesthetics DO matter. ;)

no arguments from me. but the enthusiast me and the AWS me are two different people  ;)

and if youre after aesthetics, a345 is your plane. so well proportioned  ;D

Offline Dasha

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2011, 06:25:22 AM »
no arguments from me. but the enthusiast me and the AWS me are two different people  ;)

and if youre after aesthetics, a345 is your plane. so well proportioned  ;D


Have to agree... closely followed by the 777.
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything

Ansettaddict123

  • Former member
Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2011, 07:52:32 AM »
Have to agree... closely followed by the 777.

even the thought of GE90s make me dribble  :laugh:

Offline Brockster

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2011, 08:09:45 AM »
Have to agree... closely followed by the 777.

The 77W is my favorite! It can even make Air China's lackluster livery look decent in my opinion. :)

Offline Jackson

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2011, 12:07:03 PM »
The A380 doesn't fit into the American airlines (not only AA, just everyone) business, because the whole phiosophy is around the frequency. AF is running the A380 CDG-JFK because is owning the market share, same as BA with LHR-JFK and other airports. To compete, DL, AA, US, UA etc provide smaller capacity and more frequency if able.

I agree with what you said about AF but BA do not own the LHR-JFK market share. It shares it with AA, DL A India and a few others. The main players ofcourse is AA and BA.

Offline Jackson

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2011, 12:13:25 PM »
Well, Boeing marketed the 748 mainly as a super cargo airplane. Then added the Intercontinental. They know the VLA niche is already saturated, that's why the first airframe out of Everett was a cargo one, and they have more orders for the cargo version than for the passenger one.
The A380 is a great airplane, that was designed to do things that were impossible before. And it really is doing it's work. But for Airbus it is still a financial pursuit for profit, as it hasn't broken even yet and they need much more frames to get something out of it. While the 747 overall has been a cash cow for years.
The A380 is maybe too big nowadays, and maybe came to the market too soon, or too late (the 747 was the only successfull WB in the 70/80s). But certainly it is very well engineered, as is the 747 that is doing the same job with a 40+ y/o design.

No the B747-100/200/SP/300 wasnt the only widebody a/c to make huge profit during that era. Your forgetting the other two greats. The TRIJETS! DC-10, B747 and not forgetting one of the most beautiful planes ever, the L-1101 Tristar. All were very profitable.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2011, 12:39:43 PM »
I was getting to this in another thread before it was locked. 

Airbus has a captive market for its planes already... those being the national airlines of tse european nations.  They can operate a If we build it, they will buy it philosophy. 

Thiese roots can be traced back to BA having to buy the underpowered Trident.  BA wanted more power/range but the plane stuck with those RR engines and a roughly 90 seat airplane.  On the other side of the ocean, Boeing built the same plane for 120 pax with massive JT8Ds.  They can thank the brits for a tour of the plant.

Getting back to my point, the airlines in the US have developed many more hubs than those in europe.  This has lead to the airlines reacting and opting for smaller and more efficient lh a/c.  Americans don't want to be shuttled through a few massive and now over capacity hubs

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: The Risks Of Being Too Eager With The A380...
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2011, 02:10:28 PM »
Getting back to my point, the airlines in the US have developed many more hubs than those in europe.  This has lead to the airlines reacting and opting for smaller and more efficient lh a/c.  Americans don't want to be shuttled through a few massive and now over capacity hubs

I think that is more down to the geography of the region. In the US, one very large country, there are lots of large airports for the big national airlines to base in. In Europe this just doesn't happen. Despite the fact the EU likes to imagine it is one large country it just isn't. I'm sure that if BA, Air France, KLM or Lufthansa could open bases in each European capital they would but at the end of the day they are different countries. AA can go and open bases in Chicago, LAX, JFK and Atlanta, BA can't go and have a base in London, Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt so they have to operate differently.

[trolling]But at the end of the day Airbus is just better than Boeing![/troll]

 

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