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Author Topic: What One Earth Is This About...  (Read 1177 times)

latin jack

  • Former member
What One Earth Is This About...
« on: August 29, 2011, 03:30:42 PM »
I cannot believe my eyes? Route pax is so unrealistic unless you choose to setup in a major airport in a major country. All of Europe, all the Oriental nations all have very similar pax demand closely reflecting the real world but what about South America? What about the Caribbean? How about Africa and Arabia? Sami! What is going on. There I am about to set up shop at Cuba, Havana and NEW YORK which has a MASSIVE poulation of CUBANS, have poor, unjust, rediculous pax demand. What is going on? Why is this still an issue after 4 previous MT games? I am Venezuelan and would love nothing more than to setup in a LATIN country but it seems that in order to make a REALISTIC attempt at a successful business, I have to jump to a white country. :o

Another thing, I spoke to two people a while back about where they are from. I live in London, I know alot of real world things about heathrow and Gatwick and even luton and Stansted. There are German, French and American players that doesnt even make an attempt to fight for their own airports first before resorting to another country! They instantly jump on Heathrow. I can understand why but comeon. I think I am out of place for saying that but I am sick of this. When searching for routes to fly, just put another column with a colour bar displaying the level of PAX that want to travel each route instead of just one column that only displays each airport size. I have click on airports, thinking that due to their size, I would get an average of 200-800 pax but some i get 28 or even nil!

please fix this because you have a really good thing going here but people have begun to turn their backs. If that doesnt phase you and being asertive to customer complaints( As this IS to my knowledge a profitable business you got) by making excuses for not making MAJOR changes that customers have been making a fuss off since MT2/3 then I dont know what else to say to you. This sounds very rude I know but I am just being frank. I love what you have done and this is by far the best Airline sim out there but that alone isnt enough. Unfortunately, I know nothing about creating something like this otherwise I would contact you and offer my skills and services to make this game even better.

Last but not least, the lease price varies and is not actual representation but that isnt that important. For me, its the PAX. From Cuba to EGLL, real world is this... F=35 B=60/89 E=340 per day. I think that you need to increase the first and business class pax more than anything because 1-3 for first and a max of 35 for business is not good at all.

Please take non of this to offence because I know you have done a mighty job and I have no idea what you have planned for the future or even if you are correcting these mistakes as we speak but I had to get this off my chest

Cheers

Par Avion

  • Former member
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2011, 03:50:17 PM »
Ummm... in the real world, from Havana to London, I see only three direct flights each week (Virgin Atlantic twice, Cubana once). And all of those go to Gatwick, not Heathrow. And that's in 2011, not in 2007, as your gameworld is. In the gameworld, I see a rather healthy demand of 270 per day, much greater than the services provided in the real world, so what's your basis for saying there should be more demand on that route in the game?

latin jack

  • Former member
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2011, 04:10:16 PM »
Ummm... in the real world, from Havana to London, I see only three direct flights each week (Virgin Atlantic twice, Cubana once). And all of those go to Gatwick, not Heathrow. And that's in 2011, not in 2007, as your gameworld is. In the gameworld, I see a rather healthy demand of 270 per day, much greater than the services provided in the real world, so what's your basis for saying there should be more demand on that route in the game?



Sorry, my states were based Trinidad and Caracas at diff times but nontheless, I was just using an example. It is still roughly the same and you can argue that the Cuba route is true but regardless, there are still many locations with un-realistic pax demand. I was wrong for saying Havana without actually doing proper research.

Par Avion

  • Former member
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2011, 04:54:09 PM »
No problem about the numbers - I see what you're getting at. I think that your main point that it's not much fun, and probably not even feasible in this game world, to play out of Caribbean or smaller South American countries.

However, I don't think it's really an issue of traffic. If you want to play out of Havana, for example, you have to accept that demand for Heathrow will be only enough for one flight. And you have to accept that you'll never be one of the most profitable airlines in the game.

What you shouldn't really have to accept is that a strategy that uses a lot of thin routes, the type that these airports lend themselves too, leads to bankruptcy. I think that costs scale up too dramatically with extra destinations, so much so that it's really not worth bothering serving any route with under 100 demand per day, of which, I suspect, Havana has a decent amount.

Even the larger airlines which serve these routes are probably doing so at a loss, using the cash-cow trunk routes to subsidize the thinner ones. It's a shame, because there are a lot of cool airports and routes out there that would be fun to fly with planes like Embraers and could be sustainable in real life.

I don't think that it would be that difficult to decrease the amount by which costs, namely staffing and marketing, scale up with the number of destinations. I'd guess that Sami won't have time to respond to this, but I wouldn't mind hearing a justification from him as to why this is the case. To be fair, I'm sure he has one.

to make a REALISTIC attempt at a successful business, I have to jump to a white country. :o

And it's probably not that he just hates various ethnicities :P

Offline ZombieSlayer

  • Members
  • Posts: 3923
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2011, 05:26:43 PM »
I cannot believe my eyes? Route pax is so unrealistic unless you choose to setup in a major airport in a major country. All of Europe, all the Oriental nations all have very similar pax demand closely reflecting the real world but what about South America? What about the Caribbean? How about Africa and Arabia? Sami! What is going on. There I am about to set up shop at Cuba, Havana and NEW YORK which has a MASSIVE poulation of CUBANS, have poor, unjust, rediculous pax demand. What is going on? Why is this still an issue after 4 previous MT games? I am Venezuelan and would love nothing more than to setup in a LATIN country but it seems that in order to make a REALISTIC attempt at a successful business, I have to jump to a white country. :o

Another thing, I spoke to two people a while back about where they are from. I live in London, I know alot of real world things about heathrow and Gatwick and even luton and Stansted. There are German, French and American players that doesnt even make an attempt to fight for their own airports first before resorting to another country! They instantly jump on Heathrow. I can understand why but comeon. I think I am out of place for saying that but I am sick of this. When searching for routes to fly, just put another column with a colour bar displaying the level of PAX that want to travel each route instead of just one column that only displays each airport size. I have click on airports, thinking that due to their size, I would get an average of 200-800 pax but some i get 28 or even nil!

please fix this because you have a really good thing going here but people have begun to turn their backs. If that doesnt phase you and being asertive to customer complaints( As this IS to my knowledge a profitable business you got) by making excuses for not making MAJOR changes that customers have been making a fuss off since MT2/3 then I dont know what else to say to you. This sounds very rude I know but I am just being frank. I love what you have done and this is by far the best Airline sim out there but that alone isnt enough. Unfortunately, I know nothing about creating something like this otherwise I would contact you and offer my skills and services to make this game even better.

Last but not least, the lease price varies and is not actual representation but that isnt that important. For me, its the PAX. From Cuba to EGLL, real world is this... F=35 B=60/89 E=340 per day. I think that you need to increase the first and business class pax more than anything because 1-3 for first and a max of 35 for business is not good at all.

Please take non of this to offence because I know you have done a mighty job and I have no idea what you have planned for the future or even if you are correcting these mistakes as we speak but I had to get this off my chest

Cheers

And the lack of HAV-JFK demand is realistic as it has been illegal to offer scheduled service from the US to Cuba since the 1970's. That ban may be lifted soon, but as of today the only commercial service between any US point and Cuba are charter flights.
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2011, 05:37:10 PM »
As said by jetwest, it is illegal for an american to travel to havana.  Demand should be zero.


Offline RushmoreAir

  • Members
  • Posts: 887
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2011, 06:25:50 PM »
And you shouldn't have any problem running a smaller airline in a smaller country as long as your operation is streamlined.

Most small countries' airlines are either charter or flag carrier/gov't sponsored, both of which are different types of airlines completely.

For Cuba, for instance, you won't be able to run Yak 42s profitably, but you will be able to run EMB 120s and maybe 757s (for medium-long haul) profitably.

oswegobag

  • Former member
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2011, 01:03:06 AM »
......and Anchorage, Alaska has 0 demand to any Canadian city. This is not true in real life as there are real world flights between ANC and Vancouver.

Offline Frogiton

  • Members
  • Posts: 784
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2011, 01:46:55 AM »
Most this stuff is kind of tedious, there are bigger issues to be attended to. And Anchoraage to Vancouver is seasonal only.
No replacement for displacement

Offline Jackson

  • Members
  • Posts: 279
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2011, 03:26:34 AM »
Guys i must thank you for the insight. I knew vividly about the Cuba-USA relations and restriction but had no idea it was that bad. Also, lol, I was a lil bit fustrated as you can tell and could have said what I wanted to say with more clarity.

I can't wait till the next version comes out but in the mean time...you know what they say....if you can't beat them, JOIN THEM.

Heathrow...here I come!!! ;D

Offline Jackson

  • Members
  • Posts: 279
Re: What One Earth Is This About...
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 03:28:47 AM »
No problem about the numbers - I see what you're getting at. I think that your main point that it's not much fun, and probably not even feasible in this game world, to play out of Caribbean or smaller South American countries.

However, I don't think it's really an issue of traffic. If you want to play out of Havana, for example, you have to accept that demand for Heathrow will be only enough for one flight. And you have to accept that you'll never be one of the most profitable airlines in the game.

What you shouldn't really have to accept is that a strategy that uses a lot of thin routes, the type that these airports lend themselves too, leads to bankruptcy. I think that costs scale up too dramatically with extra destinations, so much so that it's really not worth bothering serving any route with under 100 demand per day, of which, I suspect, Havana has a decent amount.

Even the larger airlines which serve these routes are probably doing so at a loss, using the cash-cow trunk routes to subsidize the thinner ones. It's a shame, because there are a lot of cool airports and routes out there that would be fun to fly with planes like Embraers and could be sustainable in real life.

I don't think that it would be that difficult to decrease the amount by which costs, namely staffing and marketing, scale up with the number of destinations. I'd guess that Sami won't have time to respond to this, but I wouldn't mind hearing a justification from him as to why this is the case. To be fair, I'm sure he has one.

And it's probably not that he just hates various ethnicities :P


Thanks for your response mate. It really did help me to understand a little more about how this thing works and reasons behind some issues.

 

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