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Author Topic: Bankruptcy  (Read 2108 times)

Offline RustyArthur

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Bankruptcy
« on: August 01, 2011, 02:51:09 PM »
How is the best way to make money? I have tried 3 different ways, using 1 large A/C and several smaller ones as feeders for it, several small A/C and then lastly, several larger A/C and still can't stay out of the red. What is the secret? Anyobdy?

Online ZombieSlayer

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 03:07:51 PM »
Stick with 1 fleet type, fill up all the demand to 1 destination first before you add more destinations (saves money on staffing), don't forget to advertise (general campaigns only, route specific advertising is a waste of money). Avoid props that carry less than 50 pax and jets that carry less than 100 pax, and do not operate Russian metal (not all of them are horrible, but all are worse than Boeing/Airbus/Embraer/Bombardier metal.) Lastly,avoid flights that depart or arrive between 0000 and 0455.

If all else fails, see Swiftus Guide for Newbies in the general forum  ;D

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline JMsoo

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 12:53:54 AM »
which is impossible to do unless you spend 24/7 in front of the used market page searching for proper Airbus or Boeing!! if not you just end up with old metal that no matter if Russian or not cost you lot's of money in maintenance.

I operate a family of 6 CRJ and so far no money really cheap for maintain after one game year it start to become impossible to make sufficient profit so now I just can't grow, before i tried to use wide bodies with airbus a330 the same first year sufficient profit and later increases in taxes that start to deteriorate my balance, and when the first C check come bankruptcy was inevitable! also using avro RJ ended up pretty much the same way!

take into consideration that I've been always operating with average load factors of 80%+ with ticket price around 80/90% of the suggested price!

only once I grow way big when I started at the really begging taking all the airbus I could from based in Milan, like first to come first to grow!!

I can't believe that airlines operating with smaller aircraft 50 to 80 seat just not make money! maybe I'm wrong but I think this software should include different strategy of involvement including the possibility to grow maybe slower than airline operating with 100+ seats aircraft because look at the used market i mean is just too poor!

you know what I will shut down my airline is my last attempt I saw few used 727 120+ seats so let's see if I will make money!!
African Airline International...Your Place on Sky...

Pen75

  • Former member
Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 02:24:08 PM »
Avoid props that carry less than 50 pax and jets that carry less than 100 pax, and do not operate Russian metal (not all of them are horrible, but all are worse than Boeing/Airbus/Embraer/Bombardier metal.)

Don

In AWS service (maitenance) of planes Il-86\96 Tu-154\134, Yak-42, at least in 3-4 times is overestimated. Service of russian engines in general, in time 5-8.

Offline JMsoo

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 02:16:37 PM »
i'm now operating 6 737 200 adv and lets' see it seems ok so far money money are growing slowly but still my load factor and price as to increase due to the recently start up! finger crossed if i will survive the C checks
African Airline International...Your Place on Sky...

Offline GlobalCEO

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2011, 10:40:41 PM »
I've been flying the 737-200ADVs as well and I have followed all of the traditional rules, along with having high LFs but I can not seem to make much of a profit at all. I've read through Swiftus's guide and have followed those suggestions. The problem with the 737-200ADVs is the the C Checks are INSANELY expensive since they are older aircraft. Any suggestions?

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2011, 12:44:32 PM »
I don't know what you guys talk about.  I have 26 B737-200 Adv in use and I'm still able to get enough income to order new planes.

Offline schro

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2011, 12:53:05 PM »
I've been flying the 737-200ADVs as well and I have followed all of the traditional rules, along with having high LFs but I can not seem to make much of a profit at all. I've read through Swiftus's guide and have followed those suggestions. The problem with the 737-200ADVs is the the C Checks are INSANELY expensive since they are older aircraft. Any suggestions?

737-200Advs are a bit too small to make decent money on in an MT scenario. The only way that they will be profitable for you is if you can use them on short haul routes. If you're flying them farther than about 1200nm, then you'll never cover the fixed costs of operating them.

In theory, newer planes have a higher lease price but lower maint whereas old planes have lower leasing but higher maint. From the types that I've flown, it really seems to be about a wash, so if you haven't saved up for the C checks within a year, then you would be just as bad off with a new 732 and a cheap c check.

The other thing, is that at your airline's size, you need to have sustained growth. You need at least several dozen planes flying to cover your fixed costs - the prepayment of the leases several months in advance helps to facilitate this by giving you higher cash flow at the front end of the lease. That needs to be leveraged so you can always have at least a couple freshly acquired planes with a prepaid lease. Its the whole snowball effect....

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2011, 10:47:01 PM »
LOL... fuel prices are over $600 and guess who's still making money with 727's and 737-200's?

vitongwangki

  • Former member
Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 01:53:55 AM »
LOL... fuel prices are over $600 and guess who's still making money with 727's and 737-200's?
Don't worry, still >600 in service 8)

Offline JMsoo

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 11:35:23 AM »
Like the previous 2 attempts!! the start seems to be quite promising making profit and buy new craft but now i'm -800k besically this game is only good if u base in places with an high density of airports within 600miles. If u base from Africa for example you can't grow most of the route demand are bellow 100 so where is the point of it? :o  i have 7 B737 200adv can't grow anymore most of the airports with higher demand are 800miles  good load factors good price again i'm the only carrier in most of my routes and yeah bankrupt. So before I tried using a330 on long haul routes no long term profit, fleet of CRJ new and cheap in maintenance no long term profit, for try last 737 200 adv as i can't find something else in the used market within 6 months i'm bellow 800k all 3 cases good load factors good prices i no opponent from my airport so definitively i don't understand the airline business so I even better give up my studies in Airline management as I can't run one profitably in this simulator. I will close down soon

Than it seems that it's all more focused in Europe North America Asia maybe Oceania but seriously places like Africa once again left behind.
African Airline International...Your Place on Sky...

Offline ukatlantic

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 12:00:41 PM »
basically this game is only good if u base in places with an high density of airports within 600miles.

You can base anywhere and still make profits in this game; to have to be in areas where you have a high airport density within 600 miles of your base isn't a factor in why you are failing.  

You need to pick aircraft wisely and also check when their C & D checks are due; all my aircraft I have leased I have made sure that C checks were at least 7 or 8 months away but most (99%) have 11 months from lease before their C Checks are to come around and D Checks are again 99% in 7 or 8 years time (I only have one due before that in 3 years but by then that aircraft will be retired from my operation). Doing this helps give you time to build up a money reserve and also expand your airline.

 The 737-200adv whilst cheap on the market are old so when C checks are due they can take a nice chunk out of your profits they are also not are eco freindly as newer models so can burn more fuel but they do have cheaper leases.

As for Africa the demand isnt great (as in real life) unless you base at airports like Tripoli, Cairo etc where there is good tourism demand, so again picking an airport you need to choose carefully.   The A330 is good but then again depaends on route types you are operating it on you need to make sure you can fly it on a route 7 days a week to make money out of it so maybe to start chose a route with sufficient demand to sutain the number of seats it has but is within 3500-3800 miles to get best utilisation out of it to begin with and once you have 7 of them then begin to do a 7 day scheduling system on the routes, that way you utilise them more and make much better money.  The CRJ's are good but the smallest I would ever go for is the CRJ700 anything smaller and you profits wont be great (in which case go for the Q400 which is awsome upto about 900NM from my experience)

Pen75

  • Former member
Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 12:07:35 PM »
Like the previous 2 attempts!! the start seems to be quite promising making profit and buy new craft but now i'm -800k besically this game is only good if u base in places with an high density of airports within 600miles. If u base from Africa for example you can't grow most of the route demand are bellow 100 so where is the point of it? :o  i have 7 B737 200adv can't grow anymore most of the airports with higher demand are 800miles  good load factors good price again i'm the only carrier in most of my routes and yeah bankrupt. So before I tried using a330 on long haul routes no long term profit, fleet of CRJ new and cheap in maintenance no long term profit, for try last 737 200 adv as i can't find something else in the used market within 6 months i'm bellow 800k all 3 cases good load factors good prices i no opponent from my airport so definitively i don't understand the airline business so I even better give up my studies in Airline management as I can't run one profitably in this simulator. I will close down soon

Than it seems that it's all more focused in Europe North America Asia maybe Oceania but seriously places like Africa once again left behind.


In Russia the same problem.
Especially in Ural Mountains and in Siberia.
Already 4 times the bankrupt was in Ural (Yekaterinburg).

zilchster

  • Former member
Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 02:33:30 PM »
I'm curious about something.

My competition in Brisbane such as Australian Airways and oz air limited have like negative airline values of like negative 9 million and negative 10 million. How come they can still be in business, especially the latter who has been crazy in adding 727 and 737 advanced aircraft. I'm surprised that oz air limited is not even bankrupt or is running into cash flow problems, but can still add 2 727 aircraft. Anyone can explain what is going on here?

Thanks.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 02:43:34 PM »
they have loans out
value = assets - liabilities
the bank will give them 7 human days to correct themselves
they will go out of business with neg cash flow eventually.

Offline JMsoo

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2011, 06:22:13 PM »
You can base anywhere and still make profits in this game; to have to be in areas where you have a high airport density within 600 miles of your base isn't a factor in why you are failing.  

You need to pick aircraft wisely and also check when their C & D checks are due; all my aircraft I have leased I have made sure that C checks were at least 7 or 8 months away but most (99%) have 11 months from lease before their C Checks are to come around and D Checks are again 99% in 7 or 8 years time (I only have one due before that in 3 years but by then that aircraft will be retired from my operation). Doing this helps give you time to build up a money reserve and also expand your airline.

 The 737-200adv whilst cheap on the market are old so when C checks are due they can take a nice chunk out of your profits they are also not are eco freindly as newer models so can burn more fuel but they do have cheaper leases.

As for Africa the demand isnt great (as in real life) unless you base at airports like Tripoli, Cairo etc where there is good tourism demand, so again picking an airport you need to choose carefully.   The A330 is good but then again depaends on route types you are operating it on you need to make sure you can fly it on a route 7 days a week to make money out of it so maybe to start chose a route with sufficient demand to sutain the number of seats it has but is within 3500-3800 miles to get best utilisation out of it to begin with and once you have 7 of them then begin to do a 7 day scheduling system on the routes, that way you utilise them more and make much better money.  The CRJ's are good but the smallest I would ever go for is the CRJ700 anything smaller and you profits wont be great (in which case go for the Q400 which is awsome upto about 900NM from my experience)
Look I'm playing since 2 years and...
You cannot base anywhere and make profit! when I used to operate from Milan I did grow large! starting with an old fleet of Fokker and BAE.
Second i used my Airbus on a daily flight linking Mauritius to Dubai full load factor and the same for the other two routes I had I know that if I would start with 3 flight a week with longer routes it would compromise even more.

Third CRJ attem they did confirm in others post that handling/pax fees and staff cost will be changed and upgrade, as far I know the number of staff is plane based and not passenger for example on the CRJ you work with only 1 flight attended on average but I had enough crew to run an Airbus instead of CRJ200 problem that make the used of those aircraft not profitable!

Last of course I'm not going to lease aircraft with C check coming in the next 2 months most of mine were do in 10 and more months no one of my plane is on C check at the moment but I'm -1million

Than how I can pick up different Aircraft if there no one? running almost new CRJ does not work so what should I do?

Africa got less load factor ok but not so low take the capital of RD Congo Kinshasa average number of pass per destination less than 80 plus link between Kinshasa and Paris or Bruxelles are way low in passengers despite the real world.

I'm operating flight between Tel Aviv and Khartoum with 200 daily passenger is there a real link wondering?  of course not you need 3 stop to reach there

when if I want to fly to Adis or Nairobi less than 100 pass daily this is only one example.

however I have proper LF avarage 160 or even more pass daily but from airports 1000+ miles less lucrative
African Airline International...Your Place on Sky...

Online ZombieSlayer

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2011, 07:06:03 PM »
besically this game is only good if u base in places with an high density of airports within 600miles.

Not true. I n DOTM, I based at GUM and finished in the to 10 in CV and was making $80 million a week at the end (second base at BUR, third at SAN), and on ATB I was also based at GUM and was a top 15 carrier with bases at SNA, OGG, and BNA. There is virtually no demand from GUM under 1200nm with the exception of SPN (100pax/day) and ROR (50 pax/day).

It is all in how you play the game. IF you are based in the middle of nowhere, get to know your airport and plan your fleet accordingly and always attempt to keep fleet utilization as high as possible.

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline ukatlantic

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 07:16:36 PM »
Not true. I n DOTM, I based at GUM and finished in the to 10 in CV and was making $80 million a week at the end (second base at BUR, third at SAN), and on ATB I was also based at GUM and was a top 15 carrier with bases at SNA, OGG, and BNA. There is virtually no demand from GUM under 1200nm with the exception of SPN (100pax/day) and ROR (50 pax/day).

It is all in how you play the game. IF you are based in the middle of nowhere, get to know your airport and plan your fleet accordingly and always attempt to keep fleet utilization as high as possible.

Don

Could not of said this better myself!

Offline JMsoo

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 11:33:55 PM »
can you tell me which aircraft you used from those isolate Airports thanks!

Well as I said first of all I run CRJ 200 and 700 from the same base and after the first year of activities my profit got down and down, second they suggested me to use aircraft with higher capacity so the only option I found was to lease 737 200adv with the same result how can I choose something else if most of the craft on the used market are old with less capacity except 737 200 or 727 but really really old and expensive? I could not choose Bae as their maximum range is around 970nm and to get customers I need to go further than that...

Guys ok if I'm wrong as you say so tell me how I should behave so maybe I will finally understand I'm based in Khartoum is a significant airport 4 and there is demand where I could easily full up 737 700 or a320 in most of the routes linking airports above 800/1000nm vicinity.

Is not in the middle of nowhere but as most of the African airports does not have high demand with nearest airports I can not even full up CRJ100 which resulted to not be profitable so....

I mean i tried 3 different ways where 2 of it at the same base! For example in europe Europe it would be different!! let's take  Milan for example I did always operate from there I can count in way  way higher demand linking it to Geneva, Vienna, Zurich, Rome, Munich, Frankfurt, Paris Orly and CDG, London and many more bellow 800nm so than yeah we can talk about maximize the use of my fleet.
But if the average of airports with proper demand i talk about 160 passenger are located at least 1000nm away (talking about bunch of them) coz the rest are 1500, and more... I can do 2 flight daily burning hell of fuel if lucky i can organize night flight but departing at 11pm landing at 4:30am and yeah only 6 days week with poor load factor resulting in the most of those type of route closing after realize that are not profitable.

Therefore yeah I'm looking for explanation, all of you guys are telling me yes you can but now I'm wondering how? whatever i'm doing is bringing me to loose money and close down the airline

Thanks 
African Airline International...Your Place on Sky...

Offline JMsoo

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Re: Bankruptcy
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2011, 11:54:19 PM »
I'm curious about something.

My competition in Brisbane such as Australian Airways and oz air limited have like negative airline values of like negative 9 million and negative 10 million. How come they can still be in business, especially the latter who has been crazy in adding 727 and 737 advanced aircraft. I'm surprised that oz air limited is not even bankrupt or is running into cash flow problems, but can still add 2 727 aircraft. Anyone can explain what is going on here?

Thanks.


Unfortunately I'm in summer break but as soon I start I will discuss this case with my teachers at school which are former managers from Airlines, the only time I mention this simulator they told me that the demand cannot be fix like it does here as it could increase systematically with the grow of the airline based at the airports
let's just take the example of low cost airlines in Europe with the development of regional airports,  facing a boom in passenger double  every year. Also another feature was about connecting passengers let's take the role of the airlines based in the middles east that grow up making connection flights west to east and and opposite!

I know there are strong work behind this simulator and don't take me wrong but I believe it does not correspond totally to the real market, I think you actually need to learn how to run this particular game to simply make profit!
African Airline International...Your Place on Sky...

 

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