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Author Topic: Long game worlds (1950-2030)  (Read 7823 times)

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2013, 04:50:58 PM »
Yes please! I would love to see a long game world running in parallel to the short worlds.

For example, I will end JA with about $20B in cash and lots of planes, including a Concorde fleets in great condition, and it's disappointing that I will have to start over in DOTM if I want to play the next "chapter" in time. And I won't have enough money in DOTM at start to keep the Concorde line open so it will get shut down right away. Not possible to fly Concorde through the early 2000s the way BA and AF did in real life.

Longer game worlds would also make AC that launch around the "borders" of the existing game world, such as Concorde, DC-10-30ER, and MD-11ER, more playable.

Regarding the slot issue, I would suggest that slot expansion continue in the long game world like in the shorter worlds, even if it means in the late game, slot availability is higher than in real life, since (1) it's more playable for late-comers, and (2) in real life, many airports (such as most US airports) don't have slot restrictions anyway, so for those airports it would be more realistic than the current slot limits that you see in the game (at JFK for example).
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 04:54:25 PM by EsquireFlyer »

Offline Andre

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2013, 05:03:48 PM »
Yep.. I really wish the current JA continued.. it sucks that it ends shortly.

Offline Srsellers

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2013, 07:05:45 PM »
Im a new player and not that expierenced, but the long game sounds fun and exciting, and i would love to give it a try.

Eudokimos

  • Former member
Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #63 on: July 05, 2013, 07:24:43 PM »
Im very happy to see that newly launched Jet Age 8 is ultra long game. Ive waited for that game.
"The game starts with short days (20 mins), but will move to 25 or 30 minute days in the 1970s/1980s and up to 35-45 mins per day in the modern era. This is on one hand planned to speed up the game process, as standard 35 min days would make the world last 1,5-2 years which is a too long time span, and also on the other hand move the game more rapidly forward for the sake of players since the early days have less "action" due to limited demand etc."
This time frame rule is excellent, I think 10 months real time period is good for AWS game, and there are open seat for other players to join during time era.

Offline EsquireFlyer

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2013, 09:55:39 PM »
Im very happy to see that newly launched Jet Age 8 is ultra long game. Ive waited for that game.
"The game starts with short days (20 mins), but will move to 25 or 30 minute days in the 1970s/1980s and up to 35-45 mins per day in the modern era. This is on one hand planned to speed up the game process, as standard 35 min days would make the world last 1,5-2 years which is a too long time span, and also on the other hand move the game more rapidly forward for the sake of players since the early days have less "action" due to limited demand etc."
This time frame rule is excellent, I think 10 months real time period is good for AWS game, and there are open seat for other players to join during time era.


That sounds awesome!!! But I missed the sign up :(  :(

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #65 on: July 08, 2013, 09:18:42 PM »
Sami!


You've made me so happy today :)

Thank you for your hard work and continuing support of users ideas. Despite the usual harsh criticism that pops up when something new rolls out. Deep down were happy and appreciate everything you do.


- Albert

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #66 on: July 08, 2013, 09:34:12 PM »
Sami!


You've made me so happy today :)

Thank you for your hard work and continuing support of users ideas. Despite the usual harsh criticism that pops up when something new rolls out. Deep down were happy and appreciate everything you do.


- Albert

Miss ya ole buddy.

Offline Sami

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2013, 02:01:11 PM »
Now that you've had a chance to play in jet age quite long already, any further things that come to mind?

Offline schro

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2013, 05:25:54 PM »
Now that you've had a chance to play in jet age quite long already, any further things that come to mind?

I haven't played a JA game in a while, but I'm quite honestly losing interest in playing right now. Based on talking with other players, it seems like demand is MUCH lower in this game world (probably to properly scale it to the end of time) to the extent that a US based base needs about fifty 50 seat props to fill out most flyable demand. I think I also struggle with the significant tech stop penalty that essentially rendered a lot of long haul flying in the first 10 years of the game a waste of time (specifically from the bases like DAL and SFO, where a daily DC6 would meet demand to most long haul destinations).

Perhaps that's all a function of the JA world and how it is intended to be, but at this point, I've been on auto pilot for a game year or two and don't have much interest in opening another base.

In a way, the starting rush is actually a very fun time to play - I'm enjoying getting MT9 going more than anything as it is highly competitive and there's a lot of rivals to out maneuver to conquer your HQ. In JA8, just fly your F.27's wherever and that's about it.

Offline dmoose42

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2013, 07:29:30 PM »
I would second schro's comment.  I feel that a lot of the big bases have consolidated into a single operator and there's not much influx of competition, particularly since people just started would rather start in DOTM or MT and not deal with the monopolies at the big bases.

I do think that thinking about how to keep the fun in the game during a long 65 year period is something that we need to work on...not sure what the solution is (and can think about solutions if desired).  City-based demand and dynamic airports will help to some degree, particulalry for those cities with multiple airports - as airlines can steal PAX away from slot locked airports (London, Paris, New York, Los Angles (SNA, etc.) all fit this mold) but places like SIN, HKG,  will still have the same problem.


Offline swiftus27

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2013, 12:59:35 AM »
I haven't played a JA game in a while, but I'm quite honestly losing interest in playing right now. Based on talking with other players, it seems like demand is MUCH lower in this game world (probably to properly scale it to the end of time) to the extent that a US based base needs about fifty 50 seat props to fill out most flyable demand. I think I also struggle with the significant tech stop penalty that essentially rendered a lot of long haul flying in the first 10 years of the game a waste of time (specifically from the bases like DAL and SFO, where a daily DC6 would meet demand to most long haul destinations).

Perhaps that's all a function of the JA world and how it is intended to be, but at this point, I've been on auto pilot for a game year or two and don't have much interest in opening another base.

In a way, the starting rush is actually a very fun time to play - I'm enjoying getting MT9 going more than anything as it is highly competitive and there's a lot of rivals to out maneuver to conquer your HQ. In JA8, just fly your F.27's wherever and that's about it.

Schro I can't agree more.    I haven't added flights to CLE, PIT or CVG in a long long time.   

International Long Haul is where the money obviously is in JA8.   I just don't have any.

Hwoarang

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2013, 08:23:14 PM »
Quote
Fokker has announced that they are planning to close the production of their Fokker F.27 Mk 200 Friendship and Fokker F.27 Mk 400 Combiplane aircraft.
There are not enough firm orders for this model in order to be able to keep the production line open any longer. Fokker is planning to close the production of this model after 6 months from today - unless new orders are placed.
Although the production continues due to new orders, I would like to see a small modification to allow production lines to stay open for a longer period of time. I have maxed out the demand from my bases and I'm delaying the new base. However, if the system tries to close production lines quickly when they don't have orders, I would have to add another type of aircraft to my fleet.
I'm just operating two aircraft types, but I think people with more fleet types will have a larger problem with this.

Maybe, if possible, after X number of productions/orders (break even point) the production line will stay open for a longer time than usual so that the production can continue or atleast until the manufacturer comes up with a replacement model (Fokker 50 for Fokker F27, MD-80 for DC-9, etc)

Offline Infinity

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2013, 08:09:42 AM »
That's a good idea actually. Like it.

BD

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2013, 04:35:19 PM »
Although the production continues due to new orders, I would like to see a small modification to allow production lines to stay open for a longer period of time. I have maxed out the demand from my bases and I'm delaying the new base. However, if the system tries to close production lines quickly when they don't have orders, I would have to add another type of aircraft to my fleet.
I'm just operating two aircraft types, but I think people with more fleet types will have a larger problem with this.
Not just those with more fleet types....I have twice run into the problem of demand for a particular aircraft type was too thin to support an open production line.  In both cases, I've run no more than three FGs. 

Most recently, after a restart, I've had to change my plans for aircraft model precisely because of this as I could not get enough cash together quickly enough to keep my target aircraft production line running.  Also, one of the better alternatives was closed down too.

Maybe this is not as much of a problem for the jets, as there is a lot of focus in this game on LH, and many seem well supported with demand for them.  But, at the current year/peroid in JA, props are still viable, even though they are overall less popular.

It is a combination of the threshold levels and length of the window for closure (from time of first warning) that would have to change.  Perhaps, if it is not already, smaller aircraft models could be given a wider berth, scaled to their relative size.




Glob-Al

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2013, 12:32:23 PM »
I too am finding it quite slow paced. For me in Mexico there is the prospect of being able to open more bases in future as demand grows, but for those who have already reached their max number of bases and covered most of the demand now all they're really going to have to do for the next year is add the odd flight when demand rises and handle fleet group transitions. I can see people getting bored.

On the flip side, I love the idea of planning out how my airline is going to look in half a century's time! Working through the different fleet transitions I'll need, and how to time them so I'm not juggling too many fleet groups etc. That is a lot of fun.

So for me I think the solution for future worlds is:
(a) introduce an auto-replace tool that will make fleet transitions easier, as requested in this thread http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,49069.0.html
(b) reduce the default ticket prices by say 15% so that big airlines can still grow up, but will take more years of gameworld time

And then when the above things are in place:
(c) radically speed up the gameworld to be 12 minutes / game day.

With 12 minute game days, a year will take 3 real life days and a decade a real life month. However, the pace shouldn't seem impossibly fast because it will take airlines longer to build up decent savings - so if they are currently ordering 2 new aircraft per real life day, they might still be getting 2 aircraft per real life day, it's just that twice the amount of time will have passed in the gameworld. The main difficulty with this is fleet transitions, hence (a) above. Other timings might need to be re-visited too; perhaps 5 years for a new base?

On this basis, a 1950-2030 gameworld would take 8 months, so if you had 3 running concurrently you could have a new one starting every 2.5 - 3 months.

Offline spiff23

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2013, 02:38:24 PM »
Overall, I find this fun and actually keeping my interest.  If this was the short JA, this is the point I'd loose interest as the game would end in a few weeks and other than the novelty of adding Ina few wide bodies, you're done.  

Now you not only have to think about your future fleet plans, but also how to untangle your flight schedules and move them to new planes.  Even if you try to remember to build in extra time for the really fast 1960s jets, moving them to the slower 1970s jets is simply not going to work 1:1.  Same with the turn on a the current long hauls which are about half what a DC-10, 747 will need.   Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I really see this as brain teaser.


My only recommendation in the future is to not slow the game.  I think 12 minutes would be too fast, but I liked 20 minutes we started with.  I don't see any issue just pacing it as 20 minute days unless I'm missing something in the future.  
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 02:40:37 PM by spiff23 »

BD

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2013, 08:55:13 PM »
(c) radically speed up the gameworld to be 12 minutes / game day.

With 12 minute game days, a year will take 3 real life days and a decade a real life month. However, the pace shouldn't seem impossibly fast because it will take airlines longer to build up decent savings - so if they are currently ordering 2 new aircraft per real life day, they might still be getting 2 aircraft per real life day, it's just that twice the amount of time will have passed in the gameworld. The main difficulty with this is fleet transitions, hence (a) above. Other timings might need to be re-visited too; perhaps 5 years for a new base?
There needs to be more than the items you specify to be in place for this to be viable.  At 12 minutes, one would have to be online far too frequently to be able to time their "transactions" / game "actions".  Slot release management at highly competitive airports is just one example currently under discussion. 

Offline spiff23

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #77 on: October 17, 2013, 02:47:25 AM »
Sami, apologies for double post...I put this in a JA discussion but thought it could go here for an idea to keep some of the used plane pages under control at this stage in the JA game.  

 a possible long game feature improvement might be to lower the scrap age on select pre-1965 plane types.

  For example, I notice if you turn in a leased Hawker 121 right before the 8 year D check, the system is already scrapping many of them (otherwise the high number of H121 scraps doesn't make sense...and this is actually a reasonable plane to operate in the 1970s unlike earlier Caravelles btw). Of course if I put an owned one into the used market, I have to wait another 8 years to scrap it.

So Maybe in the next JA certain planes like turbo props (DC, Lockheed) and the early jets comet1-3, Caravelles i-IV, DC-8 10-43s could have a 10 year scrap as that might help clean up the 3 pages of DC-8-10 through 30s  that are now parked.  Granted some folks will keep them parked for the MV boost, but I'm a fan of use them; offer them used; then scrap them and move on.

Also I don't think this is too far fetched for the 1960s with the massive improvements in technology in that decade.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 02:50:29 AM by spiff23 »

Offline JonesyUK

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2014, 01:26:42 PM »
I've been thinking about how to keep long game worlds interesting and came up with an idea.

I think the most fun part of the game is the initial 20-30 years or so, when you build up your airline. When  you reach this point, it becomes a case of fleet renewal and keeping thing ticking over. The other issue with the game is when a new world starts, it is very much a free for all, to grab the flown routes.

My suggestion is an alternative version of the long game world.The new world starts as normal in the 50's, but there is a hard limit on how long the airlines can be user managed (say 25 - 30 years). When the game hits the limit, all airlines change to autopilot/AI mode the player has an option to start a new airline in a different airport. The original airline would be poorly run by the AI, so that the new airlines being introduced by players would be able to (relatively easily) push out the older airlines.

This would allow shorter game worlds and hopefully keep the game interesting for longer and make it easier for people to join the game in later periods. It will also make the game more realistic in that new airlines will be joining an already populated world and reflect reality where the older legacy carrier were replaced by newer, fresher airlines following deregulation. Another bonus would be that the 4th fleet penalty would not be needed as efficiency would be more important, rather than planes in the air.

There are obviously issues, such as airlines being deliberately run down prior to the re-start to allow an easier start at the airport for one of your alliance mates, although I'm sure this could be avoided using suitable sanctions/incentives such as extra starting capital for airlines who finish higher in each statistic.


 

Offline Dasha

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Re: Long game worlds (1950-2030)
« Reply #79 on: May 08, 2015, 07:41:31 AM »
I have a small suggestion that I think needs addressing.

When the game starts in 1950, a couple of interesting airports are not open yet. Like Stockholm Arlanda, both major Moscow airports and if I'm right some airports in Saudi Arabia. Because there is no alternative, you can't move to those automatically so the only way to HQ there, is to start the game later on when they open. Which puts you in a (slight) disadvantage to somebody opening a base at those airports.

The reason why I want to HQ there and not a base, is because a base is always limited to a number of AC and a HQ isn't. If you HQ in Goteborg and then open a base at the larger, Stockholm airport, you have more planes at your smaller HQ than you have at your much bigger base. This is obviously even bigger in Russia and Saudi Arabia. I'm sure there are some other airports/countries with this problem.

So the alternative could be to either give these an alternate airport. For example if you start at another major airport in any of the countries where this happens, get the option to move there. (Goteborg, St. Petersburg, etc)

Or, put some kind of protection on these airports, preventing already existing airlines to base there for a certain time to protect the ones with a new HQ. This is a bit risky as it's probably cheating of sorts.

Ideally, there is a solution before the next game world starts in the '50's again.
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