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Author Topic: Strange Demand  (Read 1382 times)

Offline swiftus27

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Strange Demand
« on: July 29, 2011, 01:32:58 PM »
Perhaps there are more examples out there:

Here is mine.

1.  KEWR to SYD is about 190 per day.  The same to Adelaide.  Less to Melbourne.  Why is there 560 demand from KEWR to Perth?

Offline Frogiton

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Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2011, 01:40:53 PM »
PHX-Naha is something like 1000pax, but to anywhere else its intl demand is not viable at all.
No replacement for displacement

Ansettaddict123

  • Former member
Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2011, 02:06:38 PM »
Perhaps there are more examples out there:

Here is mine.

1.  KEWR to SYD is about 190 per day.  The same to Adelaide.  Less to Melbourne.  Why is there 560 demand from KEWR to Perth?

Living in Perth myself, I'm sure there are not THAT many people going to the US each day- let alone New York (but really, what would I know)

I think Sami sometimes throws in random demand for fun, in MT#4 I operated 4 daily A333 (1400 seats) from Jakarta to Toronto- yet in real life no such flight exists...

minerva

  • Former member
Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2011, 03:03:59 PM »
Living in Perth myself, I'm sure there are not THAT many people going to the US each day- let alone New York (but really, what would I know)

I think Sami sometimes throws in random demand for fun, in MT#4 I operated 4 daily A333 (1400 seats) from Jakarta to Toronto- yet in real life no such flight exists...

True, but there probably is good demand for Jakarta from Toronto (though probably not 1000+ per day) just as there is for Singapore and a bunch of other destinations that you can't take direct ultra long haul flights from Toronto. (I've flown to Jakarta, Singapore and to Wellington, NZ in the past few years from Toronto and always had to connect through a US Pacific hub).  And surely this is true for a number of major airports with significant ultra LH demand.  It seems to me that this is one of the distinctions between AWS and 'real life'.  Most major carriers, especially ultra LH providers, route many of their flights through hubs that pool demand rather than flying 5000+ NM direct.  It makes economic sense to do so.  Yet we can't really do this in AWS (clearly, technical stops are not the same).

As to strange demand, I've seen a few examples in MT5 too.  I'm currently based at Brasilia and, using Canadian examples again, why is it that the demand to Montreal is 200% more than to Toronto when the latter airport is, in general, 40% busier?  But no matter, such variations make for more interesting game play.

Ansettaddict123

  • Former member
Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2011, 03:29:28 PM »
True, but there probably is good demand for Jakarta from Toronto (though probably not 1000+ per day) just as there is for Singapore and a bunch of other destinations that you can't take direct ultra long haul flights from Toronto. (I've flown to Jakarta, Singapore and to Wellington, NZ in the past few years from Toronto and always had to connect through a US Pacific hub).  And surely this is true for a number of major airports with significant ultra LH demand.  It seems to me that this is one of the distinctions between AWS and 'real life'.  Most major carriers, especially ultra LH providers, route many of their flights through hubs that pool demand rather than flying 5000+ NM direct.  It makes economic sense to do so.  Yet we can't really do this in AWS (clearly, technical stops are not the same).

As to strange demand, I've seen a few examples in MT5 too.  I'm currently based at Brasilia and, using Canadian examples again, why is it that the demand to Montreal is 200% more than to Toronto when the latter airport is, in general, 40% busier?  But no matter, such variations make for more interesting game play.

Very true, For instance LHR- PER pax are routed Via SIN/HKG/DXB and then onto london, yet in the game it shows up as a single nonstop.
I really cant wait for connecting pax to be modeled- although something tells me we may be waiting a while...  :laugh:

Offline eleritz

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Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2011, 04:11:43 PM »
well, there are certainly thousands of examples of strange demand in AWS and everybody could come up with a handful of them.

My favorite one: there is less demand from Lisbon to Madrid (around 170 pax while in real life thousands of pax fly this route daily) than to Juddah ;D (has anybody heard about Juddah in Lisbon? I have serious doubts lol)

or 300 pax daily from Tel Aviv to Tehran ;D I find it so funny to fly a plane from Iran to Israel lol. My virtual contribution to world peace lol


cht7520

  • Former member
Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2011, 04:25:06 PM »
From TSA-KHH on AWS is about 4200 pax/day. In RL it's more like 0 pax/day post 2006 (with the opening of the THSR). Same with routes to any west coast city (Taichung Chiayi Tainan). It's all nonexistent post 2006.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2011, 09:21:53 PM »
Sami's data is 2006 based.

Offline ChuckPerry

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Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 01:08:46 AM »
Hey guys... on the subject of demand, is it static 2006 demand or does at vary at all depending on the actual game day.. IE I fly for United and Christmas day is always one of the lightest travel days of the year.. Does the game reflect that??   Thanks  Chuck

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 01:12:57 AM »
Hello,

no, the game doesn't reflect special days - simply because it's too much information to gather all these days and take into account that people might move more the days before christmas to be with their family etc.

So every Saturday is a normal Saturday, same for the other days and also special dates like 4th July in the US.

Offline Sami

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Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2011, 08:59:00 AM »
Demand grows or gets smaller globally over months and years but not on daily/weekly basis.

Offline type45

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Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2011, 11:01:12 AM »
From TSA-KHH on AWS is about 4200 pax/day. In RL it's more like 0 pax/day post 2006 (with the opening of the THSR). Same with routes to any west coast city (Taichung Chiayi Tainan). It's all nonexistent post 2006.

that's the same for Japan ;)
the LF in real life is different from the game, LF 100% for weekends and holidays, LF<40% for weekdays......AWS do not model it, or we may have 500 pax on weekdays and 50000pax for weekends on HND-FUK :P

(and there are no HSR in AWS :laugh: )
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 11:03:21 AM by type45 »

trent_768

  • Former member
Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2011, 06:19:14 PM »
Same here to!
In real life, CGK-SUB/MES/DPS flights will departs like every 30min or so. But in game demand is about 720-900 pax daily.

Quote
1.  KEWR to SYD is about 190 per day.  The same to Adelaide.  Less to Melbourne.  Why is there 560 demand from KEWR to Perth?
The in-game demand for CGK-CNS is even bigger than to SYD/MEL!! In reality, GA flies 5/6 weekly to SYD and MEL with additional 4/5 weekly QF flights from CGK. Both of them are using 333/332.

Ansettaddict123

  • Former member
Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2011, 04:14:08 AM »
Same here to!
In real life, CGK-SUB/MES/DPS flights will departs like every 30min or so. But in game demand is about 720-900 pax daily.
The in-game demand for CGK-CNS is even bigger than to SYD/MEL!! In reality, GA flies 5/6 weekly to SYD and MEL with additional 4/5 weekly QF flights from CGK. Both of them are using 333/332.

Try DPS, at least the demand from it is where you would expect it to be  ;)

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2011, 06:17:58 AM »
Living in Perth myself, I'm sure there are not THAT many people going to the US each day- let alone New York (but really, what would I know)

I think Sami sometimes throws in random demand for fun, in MT#4 I operated 4 daily A333 (1400 seats) from Jakarta to Toronto- yet in real life no such flight exists...

That probably explains it (random demand thrown in for fun).  Creating flights from many places in the US (especially East Coast) to Perth is definitaly a challenge, since it is ~10,000 nm

Ansettaddict123

  • Former member
Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2011, 04:07:16 PM »
That probably explains it (random demand thrown in for fun).  Creating flights from many places in the US (especially East Coast) to Perth is definitaly a challenge, since it is ~10,000 nm

Exactly.

It may have been difficult, but the Perth based A380s I was running a few games back were making a killing  ;D

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Strange Demand
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2011, 04:36:27 PM »
That probably explains it (random demand thrown in for fun).  Creating flights from many places in the US (especially East Coast) to Perth is definitaly a challenge, since it is ~10,000 nm

772LR to the rescue.  I would have to put a bunch of those on that route (1 day there and 1 day back)... something like 12  just to satisfy demand.

 

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