AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline  (Read 2676 times)

Offline vectorforfood

  • Members
  • Posts: 198
Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« on: July 19, 2011, 03:50:48 AM »
Using C208's only.

I realize i'm 99.9% sure to lose, and lose quickly, but I am interested to see how it works.


Offline pascaly

  • Members
  • Posts: 405
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 12:33:48 PM »
Come join DOTM, fuel is $123, I'm sure you could make money carrying people on your back  ;D

Offline lukeshupe

  • Members
  • Posts: 25
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 11:56:32 PM »
Im currently trying to fly some Saab 340's outta tampa.  Not going to swift, still working on it though.  I think it would be cool to have a little island hopper airline down in the Caribbean.  Not sure if its feasible, but would probably be fun.  if I cant make this work i may try DotM.  im thinking i probably could get a few 737 or the like and have me some bread and butter routes then maybe play with the smaller planes, but its gonna be tough to just fly ~30 seat props.  Good luck to you.

Hachiko

  • Former member
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 06:08:51 AM »
Got bored too, no fun to playing this game anymore...

There was a bug with PEK slots for whole one game year.
I dont enjoy this game anymore. First this minor but much affected bug, too many players and hard competition.
I just dont get it anymore. And as there were only 10 slots per hour, there were 7 airliners for one year...
That affected to near future new aircraft orders, no money no fun, and without cash and additional feet, Im not able to open a new base.

Got Bored.

Also there are no possibilities to join for an alliance as they are waiting their strongest players to be checked in the game. Now Im having already three alliances here, and that affects my pax load. No money anymore to pay my debt.

I realized in the beginning of the game, when I was at my work for night time and kept this game open whole time, by then I managed to get some used aircrafts which were suitable to my fleet commonality. If this is the case you people do, this is not the game for me. Okay someone would say that lease new aircrafts... How come can you lease it, if your credit balance is low and if you want to expand first? As that was on the edge here at PEK?

I guess sami could create the Moon option for loners, I could carry rocks and sand there and virtually gain some money there 

Yeah, as Curse said, if youre not satisfied, you can leave the game. I thought that sentence was most common in Finland, but now Im convinced that is common in whole world 

Kim

Offline Maarten Otto

  • Members
  • Posts: 1276
    • My photo site
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 07:39:13 AM »
As I said many times. Staff levels should be "seat" based not "number of plane" based.

I ran an EMB120 airline out of Lyon once and it was great to do. (but it still had ABCBA). What killed my airline were ridiculous slot costs and extreme high staff volumes (1 staff member on 10 pax)

Sami needs to fix this to keep the game enjoyable for those who get bored operating big boys over and over again.

CX717

  • Former member
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 10:11:39 AM »
Agree 600 player are a bit too much,from 200 to 350 to 400 now 600,what next?800 players?(I know the world have more than 600 airlines,but not every airlines aim to or have to grow to biggest)
,and I would like to know did the used market adjust generation rate according to game size?
I picked the first A321 during game start,and I can't get the second one anymore because I just occasionally check in and see if there is any used airbus,but I never saw one,I was lucky(probably not) to pick a left behind 737-400.Someone told me running 3 fleet type is not a good idea,you think I don't know that?I play this game since 2007.
If you are not the fastest grower or checking the game every 35mins,you can't get a used plane,your cash are far from a new plane,you are just sitting duck.
I used to play aggressive and a fastest grower so I never experience such problem,but now I do.
Some regulation are needed at the used market(like I suggested it before) ,like after certain fleet size you cannot access used market anymore,forcing those airlines who have the financial ability to order new aircraft,left the used plane to those small and slow growing airlines.
I have 999 credits at 2008 and now I still have 985,I only spend 14 in 3 years,what does it mean is the game is far from satisfaction.  
My 2 cents.  :)

« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 10:16:13 AM by CX717 »

Hachiko

  • Former member
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 10:19:53 AM »
Maarten and CX717, I feel the same. I was like what? how come some players have grabbed all B757s or A321`s. I was just in the same start as you are. No Airbuses, and this feedback of mine have nothing to do with *please change used market concept*. I found this closed topic and now I understand why there were no used aircrafts...

http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,32762.0.html

Also right now Im gaining only minus profit as I have over 3 different aircraft types. All though my DC-10s fuel consumption is lower than B747s one.

I guess I try to launch a micro airline, but how long that would last? Those big boys are opening their base airport there anyway...

Kim.

CX717

  • Former member
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 10:35:12 AM »
I even tried to play at Nigeria,which no body care because the demand is so thin.
I take few 19 seats aircraft to fit the thin demand route,and it just bleed all my cash.
If you want to put 600 player in one game,first thing to fix is to make small airliner feasible,so player don't have to stuck at those major hub,because this is the only way to survive right now.

Kim,playing airwaysim like that are just like using aimbot at FPS game,I feel pity to those persons.

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 10:39:29 AM »
http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,27374.0.html

Here is the notes of me trying to run one as an experiment in a previous game.  It wasn't that much fun and the progress is mind-numbingly slow.

CX717

  • Former member
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 10:41:21 AM »
http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,27374.0.html

Here is the notes of me trying to run one as an experiment in a previous game.  It wasn't that much fun and the progress is mind-numbingly slow.
I thought there will be a huge different by V0.1 boost,but it didn't  :P.

Offline Maarten Otto

  • Members
  • Posts: 1276
    • My photo site
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2011, 11:04:23 AM »
There is a very simple solution to make 30 seater (or smaller) aircraft work.
Do not base staff levels on number of aircraft, but on seats.

I once did an EMB120 airline and for 54 30 seater plus two Dash 8's I had 4126 staff, insane!!! Guess what killed me?





Offline alexgv1

  • Members
  • Posts: 2184
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2011, 11:12:33 AM »
The thing is, for many normal airlines, 100-150 staff per plane is pretty average (at least it was in the 90s in USA, going by my source). You actually had a lower figure than that, suggesting a lean airline like Southwest who was at about 80 then. Therefore I think there must be a modifier if you are flying small planes. As these statistics are for airlines flying large planes and above. The formula for those, I think seems right.

The problem isnt the staff number per plane, but actually passengers per staff member (these are the two main measures of staff efficiency in the real world) and the latter is the one which could be changed in this game.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Maarten Otto

  • Members
  • Posts: 1276
    • My photo site
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2011, 11:37:11 AM »
Indeed for an airline operating large planes it's good. But for someone operating stuff like Embrears of Cessna is undo-able

Offline Andriy

  • Members
  • Posts: 226
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2011, 04:40:31 PM »
Got bored too, no fun to playing this game anymore...

There was a bug with PEK slots for whole one game year.
I dont enjoy this game anymore. First this minor but much affected bug, too many players and hard competition.
I just dont get it anymore. And as there were only 10 slots per hour, there were 7 airliners for one year...
That affected to near future new aircraft orders, no money no fun, and without cash and additional feet, Im not able to open a new base.

Got Bored.

Also there are no possibilities to join for an alliance as they are waiting their strongest players to be checked in the game. Now Im having already three alliances here, and that affects my pax load. No money anymore to pay my debt.

Kim

Just for the sake of objectivity... as it just gets customary to blame the game, bugs, loopholes, etc

Kim,
I am at Beijing too, went through all the same stuff as you did - and still enjoying the game!
You say you broke? No offense, but do you really think its bug, "big boys", empty used markets, etc rather than the fact that you run 10 (!!!) types of aircrafts with 4 types having a single (!!!) plane. Its you unfocused fleet rather than anything else that is killing your profitability
And being in alliance does not really bring any tangible benefits, so not much harm if they arrogantly ignore you...
If I may give you an advice - discontinue the 4 types where you have a single aircraft and you will immediately start making money
Have fun! :D


Offline eleritz

  • Members
  • Posts: 390
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2011, 07:37:59 PM »
Andriy is right. Funny how people always prefer to blame the system and others instead of looking for mistakes they make. 10 fleet types????? Flying a single 747-400???? OMG!!!!! Kim, it's a miracle your airline is still breathing!
One of basic rules of Airwaysim is: Not everything that is aircraft is good for you ;)
And as to slots blocked in PEK, they were also blocked for your competitors from PEK. And they were blocked in many other airports (THR, some American airports).
Being in a good alliance is fun and helpful, but it's not really a condition to be successful so no need to get frustrated because of not being a member of any of them. And believe me, if you prove to be a good player, they will invite you in no time:)
I would advise you to go b/k (because it seems it's to late to correct your mistakes in PEK), base a new airline somewhere else and watch your fleet commonality (don't lease random aircraft). I'm sure the game will get less boring for you this way;)

tm07x

  • Former member
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2011, 09:12:22 PM »

I picked the first A321 during game start,and I can't get the second one anymore because I just occasionally check in and see if there is any used airbus,but I never saw one,

you're absolutely right. the used market is totally f... up....
Any airline who wants to lease planes essentially "bid" on planes. There is no set price on the plane as an airline, upstart or old-timer, will make an enquiry to a leasing company and ask for quote on their desired fleet. Thus, they'd be able to get the planes with the specs they need, set delivery dates, return dates, and most important of all, at the price they want. Which is dictated by demand of course.

It's not impossible to have 600 players playing this game, but it's both unrealistic and impossible to have 600 airlines all starting up the very same day.

And when you don't have time to check the used market as much as you'd like to, you simply can't compete. Strategies become less important and the game becomes dull after the initial plane hoarding period.

I like the fact that you can do longer leases on used AC, but I'm still missing the "leasing company" feature where you make a request to a leasing company on your desired fleet and you get a price based on delivery time, fleet size, config, lease length etc.

Which for instance could leave two scenarios, Airline A) doesn't want to pay more than x amount for 10 planes and wants a Y/C config. They're told it will take 3-5 months to deliver the AC.
Airline B) will pay whatever it takes to get their 20 AC tomorrow and only want a Y class config. Since they are paying more, they will take delivery within 2 weeks.

The fun begins when the chosen strategies come into play, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't leases slightly more dictated by interest rate than when you buy planes? Anyways, the low lease costs of company A might pay off and give results when company B is struggling to make enough money on their planes that have expensive leases.

Just an idea....

tm07x

  • Former member
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2011, 09:16:22 PM »
The thing is, for many normal airlines, 100-150 staff per plane is pretty average (at least it was in the 90s in USA, going by my source). You actually had a lower figure than that, suggesting a lean airline like Southwest who was at about 80 then. Therefore I think there must be a modifier if you are flying small planes. As these statistics are for airlines flying large planes and above. The formula for those, I think seems right.

The problem isnt the staff number per plane, but actually passengers per staff member (these are the two main measures of staff efficiency in the real world) and the latter is the one which could be changed in this game.

SAS has 100 employees pr plane, Norwegian has 30-40. I believe that's the same as other low cost carriers have.

Jet Blue has about 65-70 pr plane. And are taking orders on new AC.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 09:18:45 PM by tm07x »

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2011, 09:23:01 PM »
When you lease something in real life there is a tough equation to use.

1.  Residual Asset Value.   that is the value of the airplane at the end of the lease
2.  Capital Cost.  This is the 'sale' price of the asset
3.  Money Factor.  Commonly called rate in this instance.  Generally, multiply the money factor by 2400 to get rate.  
4.  Lease Term.  Length of lease.

Hachiko

  • Former member
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2011, 11:07:07 AM »
Just for the sake of objectivity... as it just gets customary to blame the game, bugs, loopholes, etc

Kim,
I am at Beijing too, went through all the same stuff as you did - and still enjoying the game!


Of course You enjoy it. You lead the game. There is nothing to do to win you, nor me or pac air.

Yeah, I know my fleet, as I dont have any cash to stop lease, at least those leases are ending in a few game months.
And you have four different types.
I made a mistake and huge risk to take as many new free slots as possible leading me a solution: not worth for the money and hassle.
I may be in this situation for one game year, got bk warning twice. Anyway that doenst erase the fact that due to slot blug it wasnt easy to grow first.

It's not impossible to have 600 players playing this game, but it's both unrealistic and impossible to have 600 airlines all starting up the very same day.

And when you don't have time to check the used market as much as you'd like to, you simply can't compete. Strategies become less important and the game becomes dull after the initial plane hoarding period.


Kim.

Hachiko

  • Former member
Re: Got Bored, trying to build a Micro airline
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2011, 11:10:58 AM »
I would advise you to go b/k (because it seems it's to late to correct your mistakes in PEK), base a new airline somewhere else and watch your fleet commonality (don't lease random aircraft). I'm sure the game will get less boring for you this way;)

Thank you el... Im thinking bk and start elsewhere. Or stop playing AWS completely. And you may laugh, Im beta tester before AWS was launched. New game engine works differently now, which is good. Kim

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.