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Author Topic: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)  (Read 4254 times)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2011, 11:04:46 AM »
What I am really wondering is if this only comes into play when I am competing against other airlines.  If no one else is flying, 2x150 should have the same LF as 1x300.  Has anybody tested this in Beta?

Yeah, Sigma failed hard when he tried to rule a route alone with this strategy. So the system is active also when you have no competition.


@ swiftus27

I think the possible frequency is too high, too. Not only big routes have the problem, it's still possible to fill up smaller routes with props because you have 20 working hours and 18 premium hours per day/airport what makes 18 possible flights with 60 minutes between them.

cht7520

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2011, 08:10:39 PM »
Hey everyone,

Suppose I have 1 flight departing at 5.30 that is all Y class and another one at the same time to the same destination that is all C class. Does the new frequency rule still affect it? ie. passengers numbers will get split in half in the all C class flight.

Thanks

LS7

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2011, 09:03:46 PM »
Yeah, Sigma failed hard when he tried to rule a route alone with this strategy. So the system is active also when you have no competition.


@ swiftus27

I think the possible frequency is too high, too. Not only big routes have the problem, it's still possible to fill up smaller routes with props because you have 20 working hours and 18 premium hours per day/airport what makes 18 possible flights with 60 minutes between them.

Hmm.... That does not make a huge amount of sense - that 300 passengers would have  no problem getting on a single A333, but a bunch would say "I will rather not go to my first born's wedding, because some idiot is flying 2xA320 and they are departing 10 minutes apart)

Offline schro

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2011, 09:04:44 PM »
Hey everyone,

Suppose I have 1 flight departing at 5.30 that is all Y class and another one at the same time to the same destination that is all C class. Does the new frequency rule still affect it? ie. passengers numbers will get split in half in the all C class flight.

Thanks

LS7

An all C configured plane will get hosed no matter what due to a v1.2 change.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2011, 03:36:41 AM »
Hmm.... That does not make a huge amount of sense - that 300 passengers would have  no problem getting on a single A333, but a bunch would say "I will rather not go to my first born's wedding, because some idiot is flying 2xA320 and they are departing 10 minutes apart)

The whole AWS demand is based on "maximum people who theoretically would think about fly". So these are not real persons that stand at an airport and waiting aphathetic for an aircraft.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2011, 03:45:04 AM »
The whole AWS demand is based on "maximum people who theoretically would think about fly". So these are not real persons that stand at an airport and waiting aphathetic for an aircraft.

I understand.  I just can't seem to get around to accepting the new rule, that would penalize a player flying without competition for having 2 flights close to another.  While at the same time, and aircraft 2x size is not penalized for have 2x capacity on the same minute....

I completely understand and support it for the purpose of competition between players on a competitive route, but not on a non-competitive route...

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2011, 04:03:20 AM »
I see your point, but just imagine you would establish all your routes this way and then somebody joins your airport and you have reschedule EVERYTHING. In my head this explains it good enough to not request a change for routes without competition :)

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2011, 04:30:19 AM »
I see your point, but just imagine you would establish all your routes this way and then somebody joins your airport and you have reschedule EVERYTHING. In my head this explains it good enough to not request a change for routes without competition :)

Well, that is a risk I don't mind taking with widebody.  Somebody shows up, and LFs may drop drastically.  I take that risk on the routes that are highly unlikely to have competition - ever (as long as I control my HQ).

But with the new rule with 2 narrow bodies being penalized even without competition (the way 1 wide body is not) - that I don't like.  Especially because I am based way closer to the center of the US than you are, being in Central time zone.  The candidates for overnight flights are very few - without getting in trouble with this rule...

Offline Sami

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2011, 08:57:03 AM »
Seems to me that you are exaggerating the whole thing...

Seriously, who has multiple flights departing to same destination at same time. I would suspect nobody, except some unforeseen occasions where a flight of larger plane was cancelled and they seemed necessary to fly it so they replaced it with two smaller ones (have seen this couple of times but that again was in local charter business where they are legally required to transport the people).

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2011, 09:17:17 AM »
It is actually pretty common here in the US. US Airways will run 2 or more flights to a destination in the same block of departures during busy times. For example, on July 18th they have a 2000 and 2015 PHX-LAS, and on July 19th they have a 635 and a 645 LAS-PHX. In AWS, those would be penalized now. That was just one quick search, I am sure there are others. I know this used to be even more frequent in the America West network where they would run 3 or 4 flights in a bank at, say, 0700, 0702, 0705, 0709, then a break until 1000 for the next bank. Bottom line, I don't think anyone is complaining about the elimination of the benefit of frequencies if 5 flights depart at 0500, but it would make more sense to threat all 5 0500 flights as a single frequency with the ability to sell all the seats instead of how it is currently programmed. If your competition has 5 flights at 0500, 0800, 1100, 1400, and 1700 offering the same seats, they will win anyway!

Don
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coopdogyo

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2011, 09:42:25 AM »
It would be nice if we could know just how close together our flights could be depending on the demand of the route. I am trying to fit more frequencies on a route and I am just kind of experimenting.

Offline Sami

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2011, 09:57:50 AM »
with the ability to sell all the seats instead of how it is currently programmed.

You are fully able to sell all seats of even 10 flights (or whatever number) leaving at the very same minute, it does not remove the actual seats. But in practise this would be very hard, or even impossible.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 10:02:17 AM by sami »

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2011, 02:08:52 PM »
Seems to me that you are exaggerating the whole thing...

Seriously, who has multiple flights departing to same destination at same time. I would suspect nobody, except some unforeseen occasions where a flight of larger plane was cancelled and they seemed necessary to fly it so they replaced it with two smaller ones (have seen this couple of times but that again was in local charter business where they are legally required to transport the people).

I don't have a problem in removing frequency benefit of flights departing very close to each other for the purpose of competition between airlines.  I am just not sure why 2x150 = 300 seats would be penalized, while 1x300 seats is not when there is no competition and no frequency benefit to be derived against the competition...

It would be nice if we could know just how close together our flights could be depending on the demand of the route. I am trying to fit more frequencies on a route and I am just kind of experimenting.

Exactly.  Demand fluctuates.  Even the average does.  Suppose you get 1000 pax for demand.  You don't really know if it is going to be 890 or 1100.  Plus, there is an intra-week fluctuation, between, say Friday demand and Saturday demand.

Now, suppose you follow the guideline and schedule 35min minimum for 1000 pax.  Does that mean if I do space flights 35 minutes appart, half the time I will be penalized, the other half the time I will be deriving frequency benefit?

And when flipping between frequency benefit and a penalty from day to day, is it either or or a smooth function?  Suppose the system says it should be 40 minutes and I have 35 minutes.  Does it mean I am flipping between 100% of the benefit, and 100% of the penalty?  Or 35/40=85% of the benefit to 5/40=12.5% of the penalty?




DanDantes

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2011, 02:34:28 PM »

There will, probably, be some indication or warning of this to the route planning interface during the coming weeks. But not fully certain yet as it may be a bit complicated to indicate to users. But for now please be aware of this change.


Hi Sami, quick question.

On my LHR to JFK i have had to schedule down to 15min intevals and I have suddenly noticed a hit on my LF. I do understand that there are many flights between the destinations and that might affect the LF. However, I was thinking about grounding a few planes to see if this will improve the LF to establish if it is the short intervals or just the total available of seats on the route.

So the question. If I ground a plane or two i.e Just remore the schedule but I still own the slots will it still count towards the short intervals or not? I guess i know the answer but juts wanted to double check.

Hopefully I'm making sense..

Thanks
Dan
Dantes Air

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2011, 02:42:40 PM »
Hi Sami, quick question.

On my LHR to JFK i have had to schedule down to 15min intevals and I have suddenly noticed a hit on my LF. I do understand that there are many flights between the destinations and that might affect the LF. However, I was thinking about grounding a few planes to see if this will improve the LF to establish if it is the short intervals or just the total available of seats on the route.

So the question. If I ground a plane or two i.e Just remore the schedule but I still own the slots will it still count towards the short intervals or not? I guess i know the answer but juts wanted to double check.

Hopefully I'm making sense..

Thanks
Dan
Dantes Air

I'm guessing no because the slots could be used for a flight to a different base?...
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Offline swiftus27

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2011, 02:49:03 PM »
tee hee

Online [ATA] Sunbao

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DanDantes

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2011, 02:53:08 PM »
I'm guessing no because the slots could be used for a flight to a different base?...

I'm sure thats the case but just wanted to check.

I just wanted to do it for a game week or two to check if my LF would improve so I was sure that it was not the new scheduling system that impacted my LF while keeping the slots in case it wasent :-)

cht7520

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2011, 03:15:43 PM »
An all C configured plane will get hosed no matter what due to a v1.2 change.

What change was that? I missed it and I can't find it now. What's the rule (ie is there a ratio to it now?)

I just did a 6Y/125C jet and I get 0% LF on C. What ratio do I fix it to?

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Note about route scheduling (v.1.3)
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2011, 03:19:33 PM »
What change was that? I missed it and I can't find it now. What's the rule (ie is there a ratio to it now?)

I just did a 6Y/125C jet and I get 0% LF on C. What ratio do I fix it to?

something realistic.

It was a part of the Magic Carpet changes that came with 1.2 awhile back. 

 

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