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Author Topic: Really noobish question....  (Read 2053 times)

Offline kfcheong

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Really noobish question....
« on: June 24, 2011, 11:52:24 AM »
I've read through the entire forums and have tried really hard to make a profit. But I'm still making a terrible loss.... I can't get extra cash to either buy new planes or upgrade my seats.... so the following is what I have done...

1) I kept to 1 fleet commodity with 1 engine type... I chose the DC 9 series.
2) I spend about 10% of my revenue on marketing
3) I chose an airport which has no other airline flying out of (CTU)
4) I keep my planes in the air.

I don't know what else to do..... I've been bankrupt for so many times that it isn't funny anymore..... sigh..

Perhaps sammi could be kind to me to allow me to try the beginner's world again...

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 12:53:26 PM »
Give us some more info on your airline, and we will surely be able to help you out quickly.
Cheers,
Denis

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 01:00:45 PM »
I've taken a look at your airline and your base airport and I see a number of problems that contribute to your difficulties.

First up, 3 aircraft is not usually enough to cover your operating expenses and have any profit left over.  It's important to grow to a bit bigger size quickly, so that the monthly leasing costs don't catch up to you (you pre-pay 4 months when you lease an aircraft) before you make enough to cover them + pay the staff.

This immediately leads into the second issue, that the DC-9 is really way too much airplane for CTU in DOTM.  CTU is a 90% domestic airport, and there are only 5 airports with enough demand to support a DC-9-30.  Looking at the demand, something in the 40-50 seat range would seem like a better choice.

The third thing I see are those DC-9-10s.  They're old birds, so they cost a lot more to maintain.  Also, they consume ~20% more fuel per/passenger/hour than the DC-9-30.  They can still make money, especially on short legs, but they will make a lot less money than the DC-9-30.

If you want to retry at CTU I would suggest using something like the F.27.  There are some available used, and you can order new as well.  If you'd like to operate DC-9s or similar sized aircraft, however, you probably need to find an airport with a bit more demand.

I hope this was/is helpful.

-Ryan

edit: I was assuming that you're already in negative cash between your company value and your comments here, if I'm wrong about that let me know and I'll see if I can come up with any ideas to help you recover this airline

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 01:31:36 PM »
Also don't be too afraid of competition.  After a quick glance there are a number of airports with better potential than CTU that have only very weak or very new airlines based at them.

Offline kfcheong

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 01:36:33 PM »
I'm already in negative cashflow. So i can't buy new planes. So what can I do with my DC9? Should I bankrupt myself and try again at another airport?

If I do start again, and I buy new planes... I don't get the new planes immediately  right??


Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 01:52:48 PM »
Your issue is that you are using a base that is too small, and you are oversupplying routes too much.
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ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 01:53:59 PM »
I'm already in negative cashflow. So i can't buy new planes. So what can I do with my DC9? Should I bankrupt myself and try again at another airport?

If I do start again, and I buy new planes... I don't get the new planes immediately  right??



So you have negative cash on hand, and not just negative income each week, correct?  At that point you're probably going to have to bankrupt.  If you still had the cash, you could try to lease and schedule some additional aircraft and see if they would make you enough to dig yourself out of the hole.

With regards to restarting, yes if you order new aircraft you don't get them right away.  I suggested the F.27 for if you restarted at CTU because you should be able to find them used for when you're starting, but you can still order them new so you wouldn't be at the mercy of the used market to get aircraft going forward.

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2011, 01:55:53 PM »
Your issue is that you are using a base that is too small, and you are oversupplying routes too much.

He's not oversupplying any route he flies as far as I can see...

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2011, 02:09:52 PM »
He's not oversupplying any route he flies as far as I can see...

hmm, you're right.

I swear I saw a massive oversupply, but I guess not.


Anyway, I still suggest BK and move to a BIGGER bsae (KSAN is about as small as you should go)
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Offline kfcheong

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2011, 02:13:53 PM »
I'm turning a tiny profit every week. However I'm having negative cash, and I can't buy new aircrafts. I chose CTU because I've read the beginner's guide and it seems like the general consensus is not to start an airline in an established airport....

How do I know if the airport that I chose is not too small? CTU seems quite big to me.

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2011, 02:35:48 PM »
I'm turning a tiny profit every week. However I'm having negative cash, and I can't buy new aircrafts. I chose CTU because I've read the beginner's guide and it seems like the general consensus is not to start an airline in an established airport....

How do I know if the airport that I chose is not too small? CTU seems quite big to me.

CTU would probably be a decent base in a MT game where demand is a lot higher, but if you check route planning there are barely any routes with more than 50 demand a day.  It can be hard for a beginner to figure out when you're joining the game initially, but if you bankrupt and start over now (which I think you probably should) you can find a base before you close your current airline and use the route planning tools from that airport to see what demand is like.  I think it should be possible to run a small airline at CTU, but you definitely need a 40-50 seat aircraft instead of 75-100 seaters.  It still will wind up being a very small airline though, probably ~20 aircraft.

If you go elsewhere you definitely should steer clear of airports with big, established airlines but don't be afraid to start at an airport that has an airline or two that are smaller than 10 aircraft and aren't showing huge growth or anything.  I saw a few airports like that when I glanced around earlier. KFLL and OERK for example.  Both have existing airlines, but they don't really have very many aircraft and appear to have more demand than CTU (I only glanced though, so take a thorough look before choosing one of those.)

Offline kfcheong

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2011, 02:38:39 PM »
What do you think of PEK? It has only 1 HUGE, very established airline... however, route demands look pretty high. Will I be able to survive there??

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2011, 02:50:39 PM »
What do you think of PEK? It has only 1 HUGE, very established airline... however, route demands look pretty high. Will I be able to survive there??

Maybe, but it would be hard, very very hard unless he's just not paying attention.  Demand is very large, but he already supplies a lot if not most of it.  As large as he is he can survive much lower load factors on routes where you would compete than you could.  You'd have to use smaller aircraft then him, such as the BAC 1-11 and then you'd probably run into slot trouble because he's already used up a lot of the slots there.  It would be better to try somewhere against easier opposition until you've got a bit more experience making your airline successful.

Offline kfcheong

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2011, 03:16:06 PM »
I'm looking at KUL too. Demand looks quite ok..... there's more slots than PEK. So would it be a good place to start??

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2011, 03:18:45 PM »
I'm looking at KUL too. Demand looks quite ok..... there's more slots than PEK. So would it be a good place to start??

You are looking at the right size airports.

The things to look for are:

1. Are there many unserved routes with 75+ demand?
2. Is the competitor very strong?
3. Are at least 30% of slots still available?
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ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2011, 03:35:36 PM »
You are looking at the right size airports.

The things to look for are:

1. Are there many unserved routes with 75+ demand?
2. Is the competitor very strong?
3. Are at least 30% of slots still available?

This sums it up nicely.

Offline kfcheong

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2011, 03:52:44 PM »
I've started a base at OERK. I've ordered 2 brand new B-11. However, it's going to take a long time before it gets delievered. So what do I do in the meantime? should I fire all my staffs and start doing marketing? It's now 12th Sept, my plane wont be delievered till 4th Feb. So I have 7 months to wait before I can fly any route... Or have I done something insanely stupid again??

Offline phickling

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2011, 04:46:19 PM »
Why didn't you lease out the BAC which is currently available. Granted the lease price is a little high but using the plane on a short haul route a few times a day would have brought you income and let your route profile grow.

I had several disastrous airlines and found basing myself at a medium sized airport and using BAC's intensely on a few short haul flights was how I survived.  Europe is good for this.  Currently i am based at Manchester and am on about my third year- my longest ever and I have a massive competitor arrive about 1 year ago.  Building up slowly and carefully if defiantly the key with low burn aircraft.

Hope this helps

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2011, 05:22:34 PM »
I've started a base at OERK. I've ordered 2 brand new B-11. However, it's going to take a long time before it gets delievered. So what do I do in the meantime? should I fire all my staffs and start doing marketing? It's now 12th Sept, my plane wont be delievered till 4th Feb. So I have 7 months to wait before I can fly any route... Or have I done something insanely stupid again??

Um...I feel like this is my fault I should have been more clear.  You should have leased the used aircraft.  I don't know what your cash flow is like but you definitely don't want to fire staff.  That's a long time to wait to get your first plane and actually play though.  

You could try to wait for the first delivery, as long as you think you'll still have the cash to schedule the planes then, or you can restart and grab a used 1-11.  I only was mentioning the new/used thing earlier because it meant you wouldn't have to get rid of the aircraft you leased off the used market for commonality purposes if you could still buy new aircraft.  I can't remember how marketing works exactly.  If your CI doesn't fall without you having any marketing, then don't start marketing till FEB if you don't restart.  If it does, then just start a newspaper campaign in your city only.

Generally, when starting your airline you want to lease off the used market.  I've seen people start with new aircraft orders, and it can work, but it does generate at least 2.5 days of tedious waiting (and in your case more like 5 days I think).  Once you have a bit of income to spare, the new market is important because it can supply steady growth, whereas sometimes the used market can be dry for days at a time depending on how early in the game it is and what you need.

Just a note: if you restart, and if you still want the 1-11 you probably should watch the used market for a bit instead of grabbing the one JetGreen is selling, as its excessively expensive.

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Really noobish question....
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2011, 05:48:13 PM »
Just a note: if you restart, and if you still want the 1-11 you probably should watch the used market for a bit instead of grabbing the one JetGreen is selling, as its excessively expensive.

Alternatively, you could PM me and I'll give you a discount because you are new at both the game and the gameworld. (I'm JetGreen  ;)) All of my BACs on the market right now are to be delivered for specific people, but I'm sure I could free up one or 2.

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